The reason I said “not funny” is not my sideways way of saying “I don’t approve of that sort of thing” but is more related to the point in your second paragraph. You can’t just state your opinion in the form of a joke and turn it into a joke that way. (Except perhaps in some rare edge cases: “Knock knock. Who’s there? Epstein didn’t kill himself.”) It’s like if I said “What do you call a ladder? An accident waiting to happen.” Have I said anything funny, or have I just chosen a strange way to say “I think a ladder is an accident waiting to happen”?
And in the case of Bob, I can certainly imagine someone from another culture, or who is young and sheltered, etc. not being up on American stereotyping and for whom such innocence would not be merely affected innocence.
The reason I said “not funny” is not my sideways way of saying “I don’t approve of that sort of thing” but is more related to the point in your second paragraph. You can’t just state your opinion in the form of a joke and turn it into a joke that way.
What does that have to do with the point in my second paragraph?
Frankly, it’s absurd to suggest that the joke in question amounts to simply “stat[ing] your opinion in the form of a joke and turn it into a joke”. It’s very obviously not that. As I said, it has a very straightforward, classic, “subversion of expectations” sort of joke structure. You can find it not funny (one’s individual sense of humor is hardly arguable), you can say that it’s a low-quality joke (true!), you can be offended by it… but if you say it “isn’t really a joke” or is just “stating your opinions”, etc., you’re simply wrong as a matter of fact.
And in the case of Bob, I can certainly imagine someone from another culture, or who is young and sheltered, etc. not being up on American stereotyping and for whom such innocence would not be merely affected innocence.
Someone who is genuinely confused would not be as impervious to explanation, or as flatly uninterested in understanding, as Bob is portrayed as being. (I know, because I have had the experience many, many times of not understanding some bit of humor or some cultural reference, due to being from another culture.) That sort of blank “I don’t get it” is, however, absolutely typical of the fake, performative incomprehension that I was talking about.
I agree that someone who behaves like Bob is almost certainly being performatively-fake-innocent, but I think you’re wrong to say that someone unfamiliar with the stereotypes couldn’t behave that way. For one thing, Bob-as-portrayed isn’t impervious to explanation or flatly uninterested in understanding. He asks for explanations and doesn’t really get them, and if he ends up not understanding it’s mostly because Alice hasn’t really tried to help him understand (perhaps because Alice thinks, as you do, that he can’t be sincere).
If someone told the “abortion clinic for pianists” version of the joke in my other comment in this thread, I can imagine responding very much like Bob. (Aside from the black paint / black people misunderstanding, which wouldn’t have a parallel in that case.) I’d be assuming that there was some relevant thing about pianists that I didn’t know, or some pun I was failing to detect, and I’m not sure I could do much better than “I still don’t get it”.
I agree that someone who behaves like Bob is almost certainly being performatively-fake-innocent, but I think you’re wrong to say that someone unfamiliar with the stereotypes couldn’t behave that way.
I didn’t say couldn’t, I said would not. Anyone could behave in any way they please; it’s just not likely.
By “couldn’t” I didn’t mean “would be physically incapable of”, I meant “certainly wouldn’t”, which is what I took your “would not be …” to be saying. “Usually wouldn’t”, I have no disagreement with.
The reason I said “not funny” is not my sideways way of saying “I don’t approve of that sort of thing” but is more related to the point in your second paragraph. You can’t just state your opinion in the form of a joke and turn it into a joke that way. (Except perhaps in some rare edge cases: “Knock knock. Who’s there? Epstein didn’t kill himself.”) It’s like if I said “What do you call a ladder? An accident waiting to happen.” Have I said anything funny, or have I just chosen a strange way to say “I think a ladder is an accident waiting to happen”?
And in the case of Bob, I can certainly imagine someone from another culture, or who is young and sheltered, etc. not being up on American stereotyping and for whom such innocence would not be merely affected innocence.
What does that have to do with the point in my second paragraph?
Frankly, it’s absurd to suggest that the joke in question amounts to simply “stat[ing] your opinion in the form of a joke and turn it into a joke”. It’s very obviously not that. As I said, it has a very straightforward, classic, “subversion of expectations” sort of joke structure. You can find it not funny (one’s individual sense of humor is hardly arguable), you can say that it’s a low-quality joke (true!), you can be offended by it… but if you say it “isn’t really a joke” or is just “stating your opinions”, etc., you’re simply wrong as a matter of fact.
Someone who is genuinely confused would not be as impervious to explanation, or as flatly uninterested in understanding, as Bob is portrayed as being. (I know, because I have had the experience many, many times of not understanding some bit of humor or some cultural reference, due to being from another culture.) That sort of blank “I don’t get it” is, however, absolutely typical of the fake, performative incomprehension that I was talking about.
I agree that someone who behaves like Bob is almost certainly being performatively-fake-innocent, but I think you’re wrong to say that someone unfamiliar with the stereotypes couldn’t behave that way. For one thing, Bob-as-portrayed isn’t impervious to explanation or flatly uninterested in understanding. He asks for explanations and doesn’t really get them, and if he ends up not understanding it’s mostly because Alice hasn’t really tried to help him understand (perhaps because Alice thinks, as you do, that he can’t be sincere).
If someone told the “abortion clinic for pianists” version of the joke in my other comment in this thread, I can imagine responding very much like Bob. (Aside from the black paint / black people misunderstanding, which wouldn’t have a parallel in that case.) I’d be assuming that there was some relevant thing about pianists that I didn’t know, or some pun I was failing to detect, and I’m not sure I could do much better than “I still don’t get it”.
I didn’t say couldn’t, I said would not. Anyone could behave in any way they please; it’s just not likely.
By “couldn’t” I didn’t mean “would be physically incapable of”, I meant “certainly wouldn’t”, which is what I took your “would not be …” to be saying. “Usually wouldn’t”, I have no disagreement with.