What I’m saying is that cow-satan completely understands the preference of the cow not to have its throat slit. Every last grisly detail; all the physical, emotional, social, intellectual consequences, or consequences of any other kind. Cow satan has virtually experienced being slaughtered. Cow satan has studied the subject for centuries in detail. It is safe to say that no cow has ever understood the preference of cows not to be killed and eaten better than any cow ever could. Cow satan weighs that preference at zero.
It might be the case that cow satan could not actually exist in our universe, but would you say that it is irrational for him to go ahead and have the burger ?
(edit—thinking about it, that last question isn’t perhaps very helpful)
Are you saying that perfect (or sufficiently good) mutual knowledge of each other’s experiences would be highly likely to change everyone’s preferences ? That might be the case, but I don’t see how that makes Jane’s burger choice irrational.
[this is not to discount the problem of Friendly AI. Alas one can imagine “narrow” superintelligences converting cows and humans alike into paperclips (or worse, dolorium) without insight into the first-person significance of what they are doing.]
There isn’t too much that is impossible. In general, if we can imagine it, we can build it (because we have already built it—inside our brains).
Intuitive ideas are inconsistent upon reflection, with this fact conveniently glossed over by the brain, because the details simply aren’t there. The brain has to perform additional work, actually fill in the details, to notice inconsistencies.
1: Imagine an invisible unicorn.
2: Carefully examine the properties of your invisible unicorn.
Notice how those properties are being generated on the fly as you turn your attention to some aspect of the unicorn which requires a value for that property?
Tim, in one sense I agree: In the words of William Ralph Inge, “We have enslaved the rest of the animal creation, and have treated our distant cousins in fur and feathers so badly that beyond doubt, if they were able to formulate a religion, they would depict the Devil in human form.”
But I’m not convinced there could literally be a Cow Satan—for the same reason that there are no branches of Everett’s multiverse where any of the world’s religions are true, i.e. because of their disguised logical contractions. Unless you’re a fan of what philosophers call Meinong’s jungle (cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meinong’s_jungle), the existence of “Cow Satan” is impossible.
Why not ?
Even if it turns out that all humans would become cow-compassionate given ultimate knowledge, we are still interested in the rationality of cow-satan.
Why not? Because Jane would weigh the preference of the cow not to have her throat slit as if it were her own. Of course, perfect knowledge of each other’s first-person states is still a pipedream. But let’s assume that in the future http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/mindreading-rodents-scientists-show-telepathic-rats-can-communicate-using-braintobrain-8515259.html is ubiquitous, ensuring our mutual ignorance is cured.
“The rationality of cow satan”? Apologies Kyre, you’ve lost me here. Could you possibly elaborate?
What I’m saying is that cow-satan completely understands the preference of the cow not to have its throat slit. Every last grisly detail; all the physical, emotional, social, intellectual consequences, or consequences of any other kind. Cow satan has virtually experienced being slaughtered. Cow satan has studied the subject for centuries in detail. It is safe to say that no cow has ever understood the preference of cows not to be killed and eaten better than any cow ever could. Cow satan weighs that preference at zero.
It might be the case that cow satan could not actually exist in our universe, but would you say that it is irrational for him to go ahead and have the burger ?
(edit—thinking about it, that last question isn’t perhaps very helpful)
Are you saying that perfect (or sufficiently good) mutual knowledge of each other’s experiences would be highly likely to change everyone’s preferences ? That might be the case, but I don’t see how that makes Jane’s burger choice irrational.
Yes Kyre, “Cow Satan”, as far as I can tell, would be impossible. Imagine a full cognitive generalisation of http://www.livescience.com/1628-study-people-literally-feel-pain.html Why don’t mirror-touch synaesthetes—or full-spectrum superintelligences—wantonly harm each other?
[this is not to discount the problem of Friendly AI. Alas one can imagine “narrow” superintelligences converting cows and humans alike into paperclips (or worse, dolorium) without insight into the first-person significance of what they are doing.]
There isn’t too much that is impossible. In general, if we can imagine it, we can build it (because we have already built it—inside our brains).
Intuitive ideas are inconsistent upon reflection, with this fact conveniently glossed over by the brain, because the details simply aren’t there. The brain has to perform additional work, actually fill in the details, to notice inconsistencies.
1: Imagine an invisible unicorn. 2: Carefully examine the properties of your invisible unicorn.
Notice how those properties are being generated on the fly as you turn your attention to some aspect of the unicorn which requires a value for that property?
Tim, in one sense I agree: In the words of William Ralph Inge, “We have enslaved the rest of the animal creation, and have treated our distant cousins in fur and feathers so badly that beyond doubt, if they were able to formulate a religion, they would depict the Devil in human form.”
But I’m not convinced there could literally be a Cow Satan—for the same reason that there are no branches of Everett’s multiverse where any of the world’s religions are true, i.e. because of their disguised logical contractions. Unless you’re a fan of what philosophers call Meinong’s jungle (cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meinong’s_jungle), the existence of “Cow Satan” is impossible.