So, you’re making two rather large claims here that I don’t agree with.
When you look at the history of societies that punish people by mutilation, you find that mutilation goes hand in hand (no pun intended) with bad justice systems—dictatorship, corruption, punishment that varies between social classes, lack of due process, etc.
This seems more a quirk of scarcity than due to having a bad justice system. Historically, it wasn’t just the tryannical, corrupt governments that punished people with mutlation, it was every civilization on the planet! I think it’s due to a combination of (1) hardly having enough food and shelter for the general populace, let alone resources for criminals, and (2) a lower-information, lower-trust society where there’s no way to check for a prior criminal history, or prevent them from committing more crimes after they leave jail. Chopping off a hand or branding them was a cheap way to dole out punishment and warn others to be extra cautious in their vicinity.
Actual humans aren’t capable of implementing a justice system which punishes by mutilation but does so in a way that you could argue is fair.
Obviously it isn’t possible for imperfectly rational agents to be perfectly fair, but I don’t see why you’re applying this only to a mutalitive justice system. This is true of our current justice system or when you buy groceries at the store. The issue isn’t making mistakes, the issue is the frequency of mistakes. They create an entropic force that pushes you out of good equilibriums, which is why it’s good to have systems that fail gracefully.
I don’t see what problems mutilative justice would have over incarcerative. We could have the exact same court procedures, just change the law on the books from 3–5 years to 3–5 fingers. Is the issue that bodily disfigurement is more visible than incarceration? People would have to actually see how they’re ruining other people’s lives in retribution? Or are you just stating, without any justification, that when we move from incarceration to mutilation, our judges, jurors, and lawyers will suddenly become wholly irrational beings? That it’s just “human nature”? To put it in your words: that opinion is bizarre.
We could have the exact same court procedures, just change the law on the books from 3–5 years to 3–5 fingers.
We could, but with actual humans, we won’t.
Or are you just stating, without any justification
“By observing human beings” is not “without any justification”. We know what societies that mutilate prisoners are like, because plenty of them have existed.
Also, individuals don’t have to “become irrational” for the ones who are already irrational to gain more influence.
We know what societies that mutilate prisoners are like, because plenty of them have existed.
This is where I disagree. There are only a few post-industrial socieities that have done this, and they were already rotten before starting the mutilation (e.g. Nazi Germany). There is nothing to imply that mutilation will turn your society rotten, only that when your society becomes rotten mutilation may begin.
So, you’re making two rather large claims here that I don’t agree with.
This seems more a quirk of scarcity than due to having a bad justice system. Historically, it wasn’t just the tryannical, corrupt governments that punished people with mutlation, it was every civilization on the planet! I think it’s due to a combination of (1) hardly having enough food and shelter for the general populace, let alone resources for criminals, and (2) a lower-information, lower-trust society where there’s no way to check for a prior criminal history, or prevent them from committing more crimes after they leave jail. Chopping off a hand or branding them was a cheap way to dole out punishment and warn others to be extra cautious in their vicinity.
Obviously it isn’t possible for imperfectly rational agents to be perfectly fair, but I don’t see why you’re applying this only to a mutalitive justice system. This is true of our current justice system or when you buy groceries at the store. The issue isn’t making mistakes, the issue is the frequency of mistakes. They create an entropic force that pushes you out of good equilibriums, which is why it’s good to have systems that fail gracefully.
I don’t see what problems mutilative justice would have over incarcerative. We could have the exact same court procedures, just change the law on the books from 3–5 years to 3–5 fingers. Is the issue that bodily disfigurement is more visible than incarceration? People would have to actually see how they’re ruining other people’s lives in retribution? Or are you just stating, without any justification, that when we move from incarceration to mutilation, our judges, jurors, and lawyers will suddenly become wholly irrational beings? That it’s just “human nature”? To put it in your words: that opinion is bizarre.
We could, but with actual humans, we won’t.
“By observing human beings” is not “without any justification”. We know what societies that mutilate prisoners are like, because plenty of them have existed.
Also, individuals don’t have to “become irrational” for the ones who are already irrational to gain more influence.
This is where I disagree. There are only a few post-industrial socieities that have done this, and they were already rotten before starting the mutilation (e.g. Nazi Germany). There is nothing to imply that mutilation will turn your society rotten, only that when your society becomes rotten mutilation may begin.