Interesting. I have no such experience with power, and I somewhat came to… not the opposite conclusion, exactly?
I noticed a lot how incentives are important. for example. I really dislike judging people by words and intentions instead of deeds, because I believe it encourage self-lies, creating conscious self that run in sandbox, as described in The hostile telepaths problem.
(I somewhat see integrity as something related to integration of the different parts of self, and integration of information and commitments across all different aspects of the self)
but I also noticed that not all people. That there are people who succumb to incentives, and those who doesn’t. and this is the virtue of integrity, to not succumb.
and like following commands was socially legitimate until it stopped being legitimate, the culture and society influence what sort of people exist. this is why i think seeing integrity as important virtue and something to aspire to is important.
(and i don’t see accountability as part of integrity, at all. i just don’t have people around that I trust in that way, at all.)
I see this two parts of integrity as complimentary—to both create the right incentives, and to be the sort of person who have integrity even when it’s against incentives.
past societies had the concept of honor, and people was expected to die for honor, and did that.
i find the expectation that people can’t help themselves but obey the incentives self-fulfilling prophecy, but one that it possible to avoid. i believe people can do better then that. that our society are actually especially bad on short-time-horizons front, a lot of time people succumb to incentives when it’s against their interest, and that it’s both desirable and possible to have people who remain with their honor/integrity/law intact even when the incentives wrong.
it’s still valuable to avoid such situations, but i don;t think the fatalism is justified.
Interesting. I have no such experience with power, and I somewhat came to… not the opposite conclusion, exactly?
I noticed a lot how incentives are important. for example. I really dislike judging people by words and intentions instead of deeds, because I believe it encourage self-lies, creating conscious self that run in sandbox, as described in The hostile telepaths problem.
(I somewhat see integrity as something related to integration of the different parts of self, and integration of information and commitments across all different aspects of the self)
but I also noticed that not all people. That there are people who succumb to incentives, and those who doesn’t. and this is the virtue of integrity, to not succumb.
and like following commands was socially legitimate until it stopped being legitimate, the culture and society influence what sort of people exist. this is why i think seeing integrity as important virtue and something to aspire to is important.
(and i don’t see accountability as part of integrity, at all. i just don’t have people around that I trust in that way, at all.)
I see this two parts of integrity as complimentary—to both create the right incentives, and to be the sort of person who have integrity even when it’s against incentives.
past societies had the concept of honor, and people was expected to die for honor, and did that.
i find the expectation that people can’t help themselves but obey the incentives self-fulfilling prophecy, but one that it possible to avoid. i believe people can do better then that. that our society are actually especially bad on short-time-horizons front, a lot of time people succumb to incentives when it’s against their interest, and that it’s both desirable and possible to have people who remain with their honor/integrity/law intact even when the incentives wrong.
it’s still valuable to avoid such situations, but i don;t think the fatalism is justified.