Indeed, it would be great if we could achieve these benefits without the toxicity, and ideally without as much hangover and addictiveness. I think the hardest thing to replicate is the bonding+social aspect; alcohol is a particularlybond- and socialization-inducing drug.
Benzos solve the social anxiety part of socializing, but they don’t really motivate socialization like alcohol does. They also tend to numb emotions, whereas alcohol does the opposite.[1] Barbituate-like drugs like Quaaludes are dangerous in alcohol-like ways (similar risk profile but worse) AFAIK.
GHB has similar effects to alcohol, is far less toxic, and is somewhat(?) less addictive. It does come with its own problems regarding dosing—the therapeutic window is super narrow. I do think it’s a promising alcohol substitute; I’d like to see more research on it (Scott??).
I wonder if what makes alcohol superior to pharmacologically-similar drugs like diazepam in terms of socializing and bonding has less to do with the substance and its effects and more to do with the rituals and folklore around consumption.
Partially, I think alcohol just “comes on” much more quickly, and thus the drug and its effects are more tightly-linked mentally. But all of the hocus-pocus around e.g. mixing cocktails or discussing vintages or hops varieties or what-not, and then holding the potion in your hands in its specially-shaped glass, and yada yada… that’s a lot of extra magic juju being added to the spell.
Put diazepam or gabapentin or what-have-you (or, who knows?, placebo?) in some exotically-shaped vehicle and administer it in some public and unusual ritual with its own exacting connoisseurship, and maybe you get everything you need.
(probably not gabapentin, contrary to the name gabapentin is not actually a gabaergic. Researching it for some people I’m close to I got the impression it was kinda sketchy medication and bad risk/reward for their cases though I no longer remember specifics. I think it would not have alcohol-substitutable effects, though I haven’t taken so i could be missing something)
Yeah, GHB is kind of nice in being alcohol-like without some of the worst effects. But I think the thin line between effective-dose and unconscious-dose makes it unlikely to fill this niche (remembering a Burning Man 20 years or so ago in which we inadvertently posed as Camp Jonestown Massacre after a couple dozen people took just a little too much and ended up splayed at random locations).
I replied in a different comment with a similar view. I think the issues are more substance-specific with other alternatives being available to consider.
GHB is fantastic in terms of it’s very limited negative health effects but it’s dosing can cause some issues as you mentioned. Those mentioned risks make it ideal for high-trust, safe situations but less ideal for broad replacement of the usage contexts of alcohol. I think there are other options that can and should be explored though.
Indeed, it would be great if we could achieve these benefits without the toxicity, and ideally without as much hangover and addictiveness. I think the hardest thing to replicate is the bonding+social aspect; alcohol is a particularly bond- and socialization-inducing drug.
Benzos solve the social anxiety part of socializing, but they don’t really motivate socialization like alcohol does. They also tend to numb emotions, whereas alcohol does the opposite.[1] Barbituate-like drugs like Quaaludes are dangerous in alcohol-like ways (similar risk profile but worse) AFAIK.
GHB has similar effects to alcohol, is far less toxic, and is somewhat(?) less addictive. It does come with its own problems regarding dosing—the therapeutic window is super narrow. I do think it’s a promising alcohol substitute; I’d like to see more research on it (Scott??).
Wait, is that another one of the hidden benefits of alcohol? Emotion enhancement?
I wonder if what makes alcohol superior to pharmacologically-similar drugs like diazepam in terms of socializing and bonding has less to do with the substance and its effects and more to do with the rituals and folklore around consumption.
Partially, I think alcohol just “comes on” much more quickly, and thus the drug and its effects are more tightly-linked mentally. But all of the hocus-pocus around e.g. mixing cocktails or discussing vintages or hops varieties or what-not, and then holding the potion in your hands in its specially-shaped glass, and yada yada… that’s a lot of extra magic juju being added to the spell.
Put diazepam or gabapentin or what-have-you (or, who knows?, placebo?) in some exotically-shaped vehicle and administer it in some public and unusual ritual with its own exacting connoisseurship, and maybe you get everything you need.
(probably not gabapentin, contrary to the name gabapentin is not actually a gabaergic. Researching it for some people I’m close to I got the impression it was kinda sketchy medication and bad risk/reward for their cases though I no longer remember specifics. I think it would not have alcohol-substitutable effects, though I haven’t taken so i could be missing something)
Yeah, GHB is kind of nice in being alcohol-like without some of the worst effects. But I think the thin line between effective-dose and unconscious-dose makes it unlikely to fill this niche (remembering a Burning Man 20 years or so ago in which we inadvertently posed as Camp Jonestown Massacre after a couple dozen people took just a little too much and ended up splayed at random locations).
I replied in a different comment with a similar view. I think the issues are more substance-specific with other alternatives being available to consider.
GHB is fantastic in terms of it’s very limited negative health effects but it’s dosing can cause some issues as you mentioned. Those mentioned risks make it ideal for high-trust, safe situations but less ideal for broad replacement of the usage contexts of alcohol. I think there are other options that can and should be explored though.