Do you really think we start out valuing physical continuity? I thought the opposite: the writers of the original Star Trek seemed to think nothing of including teleportation, nor does it cause alarm in D&D/Planescape or Harry Potter. I figured people might perhaps have a terminal value for causal continuity or connection, but the objection you point to stemmed from a false understanding of physics that made “physical continuity” important. (Compare someone with a little knowledge who decides to value ‘unique’ sets of human DNA, then later decides there aren’t any.)
But my confidence decreased upon reflection. The Hebrew Bible with its lack of any clear ‘soul’ doctrine also lacks HP-style transformations of people (unless you count the implied snake with legs, or surgery producing Eve from a rib).
I thought the opposite: the writers of the original Star Trek seemed to think nothing of including teleportation, nor does it cause alarm in D&D/Planescape or Harry Potter.
I think the naive reaction to onscreen teleportation is that it is ‘instantaneous movement’ bypassing intervening distance, a la wormholes, not the destruction of an original and construction of a new version at a different location. If the Star Trek teleporter worked onscreen by slowly burning the original to ashes, and then growing a new copy at the destination in a vat, people would have very different reactions.
There was an episode of TNG about this. They wind up with two Rikers if I remember correctly. Then in an episode of Voyager two signals are accidentally combined resulting in a hybrid of two characters.
They wind up with two Rikers if I remember correctly.
OTOH, they all seem dreadfully puzzled at the issues of identity this raises. (It had happened some time ago, without anyone realizing; the original was left behind after they successfully beamed him up, and they only realized what had happened when they revisited the planet. So they had spent some time getting to know one copy, and the other was essentially a new character.)
You do realize the notion of the “clone” that somehow has the original’s memories is a well-established pulp science fiction trope, and (when the original is dead) is usually treated as the same character?
I thought the opposite: the writers of the original Star Trek seemed to think nothing of including teleportation, nor does it cause alarm in D&D/Planescape or Harry Potter.
I’m not sure how this is evidence for your hypothesis ‘the objection you point to stemmed from a false understanding of physics that made “physical continuity” important’. If you are right, wouldn’t this false understanding of physics also apply to Star Trek (which is supposed to have the same physics as our world), and lead to the same objection? I think a more likely explanation is that for various reasons, the the details of how transporters are supposed to work and the implications thereof don’t rise to salience in most viewers’ minds.
In the case of D&D/Planescape and Harry Potter, I think the supposed physics/ontology of the fictional worlds are different enough from ours (they both have actual souls for example) and also sufficiently murky that we just say “if the in-world characters aren’t worried about their teleportation spells, who am I to judge?”
I’m not sure how this is evidence for your hypothesis ‘the objection you point to stemmed from a false understanding of physics that made “physical continuity” important’.
It’s not, it’s evidence that your “value” for physical continuity is not the same as your value for happiness or less pain. If Hairy is correct here, it would probably be a cached thought based on “if I’m destroyed, I will DIE. Teleportation destroys me. Therefore, if I teleport I will DIE.”
Do you really think we start out valuing physical continuity? I thought the opposite: the writers of the original Star Trek seemed to think nothing of including teleportation, nor does it cause alarm in D&D/Planescape or Harry Potter. I figured people might perhaps have a terminal value for causal continuity or connection, but the objection you point to stemmed from a false understanding of physics that made “physical continuity” important. (Compare someone with a little knowledge who decides to value ‘unique’ sets of human DNA, then later decides there aren’t any.)
But my confidence decreased upon reflection. The Hebrew Bible with its lack of any clear ‘soul’ doctrine also lacks HP-style transformations of people (unless you count the implied snake with legs, or surgery producing Eve from a rib).
I think the naive reaction to onscreen teleportation is that it is ‘instantaneous movement’ bypassing intervening distance, a la wormholes, not the destruction of an original and construction of a new version at a different location. If the Star Trek teleporter worked onscreen by slowly burning the original to ashes, and then growing a new copy at the destination in a vat, people would have very different reactions.
There was an episode of TNG about this. They wind up with two Rikers if I remember correctly. Then in an episode of Voyager two signals are accidentally combined resulting in a hybrid of two characters.
OTOH, they all seem dreadfully puzzled at the issues of identity this raises. (It had happened some time ago, without anyone realizing; the original was left behind after they successfully beamed him up, and they only realized what had happened when they revisited the planet. So they had spent some time getting to know one copy, and the other was essentially a new character.)
You do realize the notion of the “clone” that somehow has the original’s memories is a well-established pulp science fiction trope, and (when the original is dead) is usually treated as the same character?
I’m not sure how this is evidence for your hypothesis ‘the objection you point to stemmed from a false understanding of physics that made “physical continuity” important’. If you are right, wouldn’t this false understanding of physics also apply to Star Trek (which is supposed to have the same physics as our world), and lead to the same objection? I think a more likely explanation is that for various reasons, the the details of how transporters are supposed to work and the implications thereof don’t rise to salience in most viewers’ minds.
In the case of D&D/Planescape and Harry Potter, I think the supposed physics/ontology of the fictional worlds are different enough from ours (they both have actual souls for example) and also sufficiently murky that we just say “if the in-world characters aren’t worried about their teleportation spells, who am I to judge?”
It’s not, it’s evidence that your “value” for physical continuity is not the same as your value for happiness or less pain. If Hairy is correct here, it would probably be a cached thought based on “if I’m destroyed, I will DIE. Teleportation destroys me. Therefore, if I teleport I will DIE.”