Will Brown: it’s simple, really. GPT-4.1 is o3 without reasoning … o1 is 4o with reasoning … and o4 is GPT-4.5 with reasoning.
Price and knowledge cutoff for o3 strongly suggest it’s indeed GPT-4.1 with reasoning. And so again we don’t get to see the touted scaling of reasoning models, since the base model got upgraded instead of remaining unchanged. (I’m getting the impression that GPT-4.5 with reasoning is going to be called “GPT-5” rather than “o4″, similarly to how Gemini 2.5 Pro is plausibly Gemini 2.0 Pro with reasoning.)
In any case, the fact that o3 is not GPT-4.5 with reasoning means that there is still no word on what GPT-4.5 with reasoning is capable of. For Anthropic, Sonnet 3.7 with reasoning is analogous to o1 (it’s built on the base model of the older Sonnet 3.5, similarly to how o1 is built on the base model of GPT-4o). Internally, they probably already have a reasoning model for some larger Opus model (analogous to GPT-4.5) and for a newer Sonnet (analogous to GPT-4.1) with a newer base model different from that of Sonnet 3.5.
This also makes it less plausible that Gemini 2.5 Pro is based on a GPT-4.5 scale model (even though TPUs might’ve been able to make its price/speed possible even if it was), so there might be a Gemini 2.0 Ultra internally after all, at least as a base model. One of the new algorithmic secrets disclosed in Gemma 3 report was that pretraining knowledge distillation works even when the teacher model is much larger (rather than modestly larger) than the student model, it just needs to be trained for enough tokens for this to become an advantage rather than a disadvantage (Figure 8), something that for example Llama 3.2 from Sep 2024 still wasn’t taking advantage of. This makes it useful to train the largest possible compute optimal base model regardless of whether its better quality justifies its inference cost, merely to make the smaller overtrained base models better by pretraining them from the large model logits with knowledge distillation instead of from raw tokens.
Price and knowledge cutoff for o3 strongly suggest it’s indeed GPT-4.1 with reasoning. And so again we don’t get to see the touted scaling of reasoning models, since the base model got upgraded instead of remaining unchanged. (I’m getting the impression that GPT-4.5 with reasoning is going to be called “GPT-5” rather than “o4″, similarly to how Gemini 2.5 Pro is plausibly Gemini 2.0 Pro with reasoning.)
In any case, the fact that o3 is not GPT-4.5 with reasoning means that there is still no word on what GPT-4.5 with reasoning is capable of. For Anthropic, Sonnet 3.7 with reasoning is analogous to o1 (it’s built on the base model of the older Sonnet 3.5, similarly to how o1 is built on the base model of GPT-4o). Internally, they probably already have a reasoning model for some larger Opus model (analogous to GPT-4.5) and for a newer Sonnet (analogous to GPT-4.1) with a newer base model different from that of Sonnet 3.5.
This also makes it less plausible that Gemini 2.5 Pro is based on a GPT-4.5 scale model (even though TPUs might’ve been able to make its price/speed possible even if it was), so there might be a Gemini 2.0 Ultra internally after all, at least as a base model. One of the new algorithmic secrets disclosed in Gemma 3 report was that pretraining knowledge distillation works even when the teacher model is much larger (rather than modestly larger) than the student model, it just needs to be trained for enough tokens for this to become an advantage rather than a disadvantage (Figure 8), something that for example Llama 3.2 from Sep 2024 still wasn’t taking advantage of. This makes it useful to train the largest possible compute optimal base model regardless of whether its better quality justifies its inference cost, merely to make the smaller overtrained base models better by pretraining them from the large model logits with knowledge distillation instead of from raw tokens.
Does this match your understanding?
Where does o4-mini fall in this table? 4.1 + reasoning + enhancements, or 4.5 + reasoning—size?