To see why I find your argument unconvincing, replace ‘consciousness’ with ‘transistors’, and ‘ToE’ with ‘quantum theory’.
“If we can understand transistors after constructing quantum theory, then we should be able to understand transistors after constructing systems which are similar enough to quantum theory but do not in fact correspond to reality. If you can agree with this statement,”
I do,
“then you might also agree that If we can understand transistors after constructing quantum theory, then there is in fact a space of mathematical systems which would provide an adequate framework to understand transistors”
There is. But this says nothing, because even though people could have understood transistors before quantum theory, there would have been many competing hypotheses but no prior to help them sort out the hypotheses. Quantum physics provided a prior which allowed people to selectively narrow down hypotheses.
“Does it not follow that we should theoretically be able to construct a mathematical system within which transistors could exist?”
We could, but there would be so many mathematical systems with this property that finding the correct one would be hopeless.
“Does it not follow that we should theoretically be able to construct a mathematical system within which transistors could exist?”
We could, but there would be so many mathematical systems with this property that finding the correct one would be hopeless.
Oh okay. I previously misunderstood your argument and thought you were saying it’s impossible, but I think we both agree that it’s possible to do this for consciousness.
I guess the definition of consciousness as constructed in my own head is broad enough to exist within many different systems (certainly almost any every system that contains computers, and that seems a broad enough set). So via the definition i’m working off of, it seems practical as well as possible.
I think we agree on plausibility, but disagree on practicality. Anyway, it’s been an unexpectedly enlightening conversation; I’m sad that you got downvoted (it wasn’t me!)
I know it wasn’t you—I’m fairly certain that there is someone who systematically goes through all my posts and gives them a single downvote. From what I’ve heard this happens to a lot of people.
To see why I find your argument unconvincing, replace ‘consciousness’ with ‘transistors’, and ‘ToE’ with ‘quantum theory’.
“If we can understand transistors after constructing quantum theory, then we should be able to understand transistors after constructing systems which are similar enough to quantum theory but do not in fact correspond to reality. If you can agree with this statement,”
I do,
“then you might also agree that If we can understand transistors after constructing quantum theory, then there is in fact a space of mathematical systems which would provide an adequate framework to understand transistors”
There is. But this says nothing, because even though people could have understood transistors before quantum theory, there would have been many competing hypotheses but no prior to help them sort out the hypotheses. Quantum physics provided a prior which allowed people to selectively narrow down hypotheses.
“Does it not follow that we should theoretically be able to construct a mathematical system within which transistors could exist?”
We could, but there would be so many mathematical systems with this property that finding the correct one would be hopeless.
Oh okay. I previously misunderstood your argument and thought you were saying it’s impossible, but I think we both agree that it’s possible to do this for consciousness.
I guess the definition of consciousness as constructed in my own head is broad enough to exist within many different systems (certainly almost any every system that contains computers, and that seems a broad enough set). So via the definition i’m working off of, it seems practical as well as possible.
I think we agree on plausibility, but disagree on practicality. Anyway, it’s been an unexpectedly enlightening conversation; I’m sad that you got downvoted (it wasn’t me!)
I know it wasn’t you—I’m fairly certain that there is someone who systematically goes through all my posts and gives them a single downvote. From what I’ve heard this happens to a lot of people.