All of the below is speculative; I just want to not that there are at least equally good arguments for the advantages of being seen as a bad liar (and for actually being a bad liar).
I disagree on the real world advantages. Judging what works from a few examples who are known as good liars (Trump and Musk for instance) isn’t the right way to judge what works on average (and I’m not sure those two are even “succeeding” by my standards; Trump at least seems quite unhappy).
I have long refused to play social deception games because not only do I not want to be known as a good liar, I don’t want to become a good liar! Being known as one seems highly disadvantageous in personal life. Trust from those nearest you seems highly valuable in many situations.
The best way to be seen as trustworthy is to be trustworthy. Practicing lying puts you at risk for being known as good at lying could get you a reputation as untrustworthy.
Aside from practical benefits of being known as a trustworthy partner for a variety of ventures, being known as a good liar is going to be a substantial barrier to having reliable friendships.
I stopped playing social deception games when I noticed how I no longer trusted my friends who’d proven to be good liars. I realized I couldn’t read them, so could no longer take them at face value when they told me important things.
My other friends who’d proven to be poor liars also became more trustworthy to me. If they’d kept practicing and become good liars, they’d have lost that trust.
Faking being a bad liar or being trustworthy seems like a potentially good strategy, but it just seems more trouble than remaining a bad liar and just being honest in your dealings. I’m sure there are some life circumstances where that won’t work, but it’s nice to live honestly if you can.
I agree being high-integrity and not lying is a good strategy in many real-world dealings. It’s also better for your soul. However I will not frame it as “being a bad liar” so much as “being honest.” Being high-integrity is often valuable, and ofc you accrue more benefits from actually being high-integrity when you’re also known as high-integrity. But these benefits mostly come from actually not lying, rather than lying and being bad at it.
Right. There’s no advantage to being a bad liar, but there may be an advantage to being seen as a bad liar. But it’s probably not worth lying badly to get that reputation, since that would also wreck your reputation for honesty.
The best way to be seen as trustworthy is to be trustworthy.
Depends on the environment. Among relatively smart people who know each other, trust their previous experience, and communicate their previous experience with each other—yes. But this strategy breaks down if you keep meeting strangers, or if people around you believe the rumors (so it is easy to character-assassinate a honest person).
All of the below is speculative; I just want to not that there are at least equally good arguments for the advantages of being seen as a bad liar (and for actually being a bad liar).
I disagree on the real world advantages. Judging what works from a few examples who are known as good liars (Trump and Musk for instance) isn’t the right way to judge what works on average (and I’m not sure those two are even “succeeding” by my standards; Trump at least seems quite unhappy).
I have long refused to play social deception games because not only do I not want to be known as a good liar, I don’t want to become a good liar! Being known as one seems highly disadvantageous in personal life. Trust from those nearest you seems highly valuable in many situations.
The best way to be seen as trustworthy is to be trustworthy. Practicing lying puts you at risk for being known as good at lying could get you a reputation as untrustworthy.
Aside from practical benefits of being known as a trustworthy partner for a variety of ventures, being known as a good liar is going to be a substantial barrier to having reliable friendships.
I stopped playing social deception games when I noticed how I no longer trusted my friends who’d proven to be good liars. I realized I couldn’t read them, so could no longer take them at face value when they told me important things.
My other friends who’d proven to be poor liars also became more trustworthy to me. If they’d kept practicing and become good liars, they’d have lost that trust.
Faking being a bad liar or being trustworthy seems like a potentially good strategy, but it just seems more trouble than remaining a bad liar and just being honest in your dealings. I’m sure there are some life circumstances where that won’t work, but it’s nice to live honestly if you can.
I agree being high-integrity and not lying is a good strategy in many real-world dealings. It’s also better for your soul. However I will not frame it as “being a bad liar” so much as “being honest.” Being high-integrity is often valuable, and ofc you accrue more benefits from actually being high-integrity when you’re also known as high-integrity. But these benefits mostly come from actually not lying, rather than lying and being bad at it.
Right. There’s no advantage to being a bad liar, but there may be an advantage to being seen as a bad liar. But it’s probably not worth lying badly to get that reputation, since that would also wreck your reputation for honesty.
Depends on the environment. Among relatively smart people who know each other, trust their previous experience, and communicate their previous experience with each other—yes. But this strategy breaks down if you keep meeting strangers, or if people around you believe the rumors (so it is easy to character-assassinate a honest person).