Insofar as conversations are 100% about communicating information on the object level about a topic, of course social information about status and personal hostilities are irrelevant to the point of a conversation. Insofar as one is not blinding oneself to the other dynamics but also living in them, then calling someone a fool a lot is quite relevant to whether to continue interacting with someone, as I’m pretty sure you’re aware.
Our comment threads are going in circles, and these perspectives are not being bridged. I expect more comments like this are not going to change much.
It would be a great mistake to suppose that it is sufficient not to become personal yourself. For by showing a man quite quietly that he is wrong, and that what he says and thinks is incorrect—a process which occurs in every dialectical victory—you embitter him more than if you used some rude or insulting expression. Why is this? Because, as Hobbes observes,17 all mental pleasure consists in being able to compare oneself with others to one’s own advantage. Nothing is of greater moment to a man than the gratification of his vanity, and no wound is more painful than that which is inflicted on it. Hence such phrases as “Death before dishonour,” and so on. The gratification of vanity arises mainly by comparison of oneself with others, in every respect, but chiefly in respect of one’s intellectual powers; and so the most effective and the strongest gratification of it is to be found in controversy. Hence the embitterment of defeat, apart from any question of injustice; and hence recourse to that last weapon, that last trick, which you cannot evade by mere politeness. A cool demeanour may, however, help you here, if, as soon as your opponent becomes personal, you quietly reply, “That has no bearing on the point in dispute,” and immediately bring the conversation back to it, and continue to show him that he is wrong, without taking any notice of his insults. Say, as Themistocles said to Eurybiades—Strike, but hear me. But such demeanour is not given to every one.
I have much work to do other than replying to these long threads with you and your allies under the clouds of this political conflict around whether to ban you from LessWrong. Do not expect many more replies any time soon.
Insofar as conversations are 100% about communicating information on the object level about a topic, of course social information about status and personal hostilities are irrelevant to the point of a conversation. Insofar as one is not blinding oneself to the other dynamics but also living in them, then calling someone a fool a lot is quite relevant to whether to continue interacting with someone, as I’m pretty sure you’re aware.
Our comment threads are going in circles, and these perspectives are not being bridged. I expect more comments like this are not going to change much.
I have much work to do other than replying to these long threads with you and your allies under the clouds of this political conflict around whether to ban you from LessWrong. Do not expect many more replies any time soon.