(7) If you have a fatal disease that can only be cured by wearing a bracelet or necklace under your clothing, and anyone who receives an honest explanation of what the item is will think you’re weird, do you wear the bracelet or necklace?
Answering yes to (7) means that you shouldn’t refrain from cryonics for fear of being thought weird.
Is it really so easy to hide it from all the relevant people, including close friends and relatives, let alone significant others (who, according to what I’ve read about the topic, usually are the most powerful obstacle)?
Also, I’m not very knowledgeable about this sort of thing, but it seems to me like doing it completely in secret could endanger the success of the procedure after your death. Imagine if a bereaved family and/or spouse suddenly find out that their beloved deceased has requested this terrible and obscene thing instead of a proper funeral, which not only shocks them, but also raises the frightening possibility that once the word spreads, they’ll also be tainted with this awful association in people’s minds. I wouldn’t be surprised if they fight tooth and nail to prevent the cryonics people from taking possession of the body, though I don’t know what realistic chances of success they might have (which probably depends on the local laws).
(I wonder if some people around here actually know of real-life stories of this kind and how they tend to play out? I’m sure at least some have happened in practice.)
I’ve heard of stories like that, except replace ‘cryonics’ with ‘organ donation’ and ‘this terrible and obscene thing’ refers to destroying the sanctity of a dead body rather than preserving the entire body cryonically. In Australia at least, the family’s wishes win out over those of the deceased.
I think to be honest here you need to point out the very small chance the bracelet has of working.
I think it could be aptly compared to those ‘magnetic bracelets’ newagey types sometimes wear which are a fast track to me not talking to them anymore.
(8) Suppose you are told that your fatal disease can only be cured by wearing a necklace. You ask how many people have been cured and receive the answer “None”. You ask how the necklace works, and are told that it might be nano-technology, or it might be scanning and uploading. “We don’t know yet, but that there is reason to be confident that it will work.” Do you wear the necklace?
Answering yes to (8) means that you shouldn’t refrain from cryonics because you fear signaling that you are prone to being victimized by quacks.
You’re confusing different questions. Each question should isolate a single potential motivation and show that it is not, of itself, sufficient reason to refuse. If you fear signaling, don’t tell people about the necklace. If you fear quacks, don’t make the question be about a necklace or about signaling.
There was some irony, but skepticism is a real reason why some people refrain. The necklace is simply part of the scenario, I see no particular reason to remove it from the story except risk of confusion. So, instead of a necklace, make it a “magic decoder ring”, or, if we need to maintain privacy, a “harmonic suppository”.
EY is right, though that if this one is meant seriously, the final sentence should read:
Answering yes to (8) means that you shouldn’t refrain from cryonics because you dislike being victimized by quacks.
I thought Eliezer was taking your comment a bit seriously—but on rereading his comment, I now think it makes sense to ask for your objections to be split up.
There’s a problem, though—his “don’t tell people about the necklace” sounds as though it would help to defeat its ostensible purpose. It is intended to send a message to those close to the near-death-experience. It is tricky to send that kind of message to one group, while not sending it to everyone else as well.
You mean like the warning sign of a pacemaker, or one off all the other helpful, but odd medical tools? There are many things that treat a person in need but look odd. Problem being that those get applied to sick people.
(7) If you have a fatal disease that can only be cured by wearing a bracelet or necklace under your clothing, and anyone who receives an honest explanation of what the item is will think you’re weird, do you wear the bracelet or necklace?
Answering yes to (7) means that you shouldn’t refrain from cryonics for fear of being thought weird.
Heh—that actually doubles as an explanation to people who ask:
“I’m wearing this necklace because I have a fatal disease that can only be cured by wearing it, and even then it only has a small chance of working.”
--Oh no! I’m so sorry! What’s the disease?
“Mortality.”
The main weirdness problem with cryonics is not that people examine cryonics and then discard it because they don’t want to look weird.
The problem is that people will not consider or honestly discuss at all something that looks weird.
Is it really so easy to hide it from all the relevant people, including close friends and relatives, let alone significant others (who, according to what I’ve read about the topic, usually are the most powerful obstacle)?
Also, I’m not very knowledgeable about this sort of thing, but it seems to me like doing it completely in secret could endanger the success of the procedure after your death. Imagine if a bereaved family and/or spouse suddenly find out that their beloved deceased has requested this terrible and obscene thing instead of a proper funeral, which not only shocks them, but also raises the frightening possibility that once the word spreads, they’ll also be tainted with this awful association in people’s minds. I wouldn’t be surprised if they fight tooth and nail to prevent the cryonics people from taking possession of the body, though I don’t know what realistic chances of success they might have (which probably depends on the local laws).
(I wonder if some people around here actually know of real-life stories of this kind and how they tend to play out? I’m sure at least some have happened in practice.)
I’ve heard of stories like that, except replace ‘cryonics’ with ‘organ donation’ and ‘this terrible and obscene thing’ refers to destroying the sanctity of a dead body rather than preserving the entire body cryonically. In Australia at least, the family’s wishes win out over those of the deceased.
I think to be honest here you need to point out the very small chance the bracelet has of working.
I think it could be aptly compared to those ‘magnetic bracelets’ newagey types sometimes wear which are a fast track to me not talking to them anymore.
If you replace the necklace with “losing all your hair”, haven’t you described chemotherapy?
(For extra fuel: losing your hair is far from the most unpleasant symptom of chemotherapy.)
Actually, I suspect that most people would answer no to this, at least in practice.
(8) Suppose you are told that your fatal disease can only be cured by wearing a necklace. You ask how many people have been cured and receive the answer “None”. You ask how the necklace works, and are told that it might be nano-technology, or it might be scanning and uploading. “We don’t know yet, but that there is reason to be confident that it will work.” Do you wear the necklace?
Answering yes to (8) means that you shouldn’t refrain from cryonics because you fear signaling that you are prone to being victimized by quacks.
You’re confusing different questions. Each question should isolate a single potential motivation and show that it is not, of itself, sufficient reason to refuse. If you fear signaling, don’t tell people about the necklace. If you fear quacks, don’t make the question be about a necklace or about signaling.
I think that was intended more as irony.
There was some irony, but skepticism is a real reason why some people refrain. The necklace is simply part of the scenario, I see no particular reason to remove it from the story except risk of confusion. So, instead of a necklace, make it a “magic decoder ring”, or, if we need to maintain privacy, a “harmonic suppository”.
EY is right, though that if this one is meant seriously, the final sentence should read: Answering yes to (8) means that you shouldn’t refrain from cryonics because you dislike being victimized by quacks.
Necklace seems OK to me—the Alcor Emergency ID Tags includes a necklace and bracelet.
I thought Eliezer was taking your comment a bit seriously—but on rereading his comment, I now think it makes sense to ask for your objections to be split up.
There’s a problem, though—his “don’t tell people about the necklace” sounds as though it would help to defeat its ostensible purpose. It is intended to send a message to those close to the near-death-experience. It is tricky to send that kind of message to one group, while not sending it to everyone else as well.
You mean like the warning sign of a pacemaker, or one off all the other helpful, but odd medical tools? There are many things that treat a person in need but look odd. Problem being that those get applied to sick people.