Cf. Eric Flint, I’ve always found the idea of bringing technology back in time very interesting. Specifically, I’ve always wondered what technology I could independently invent and how early I could invent it. Of course, the thought experiment requires me to handwave away lots of concerns (like speaking the local language, not being killed as a heretic/outsider, and finding a patron).
Now, I’m not a scientist, but I think I could invent a steam engine if there was decent metallurgy already. Steam engine: Fill large enclosed container with water, heat water to boiling, steam goes through a tube to turn a crank, voila—useful work. So, 1000s in Europe, maybe?
I’d like to think that I could inspire someone like Descartes to invent calculus. But there’s no way I could invent in on my own.
Of course; it’s a common thought-experiment among geeks, ever since A Connecticut Yankee. There’s even a shirt stuffed with technical info in case one ever goes back in time.
(FWIW, I think you’d do better with conceptual stuff like Descartes and gravity, which you can explain to the local savant and work on hammering out the details together; metallurgy is hard, and it’s not like there weren’t steam engines before the industrial revolution—they were just uselessly weak and expensive. Low cost of labor means machines are too expensive to be worth bothering with.)
You’re probably right, but other than proving the Earth is round (which is not likely to need proving unless I go far back), there’s not a lot of useful things I can demonstrate to the savant. And telling the savant about germ theory or suchlike without being able to demonstrate it seems pretty useless to me.
I’ve always wondered how much ‘implicit’ knowledge we can take for granted. For example, the basic idea of randomized trials, while it has early forebears in Arabic stuff in the 1000s or whenever, is easy to explain and justify for any LWer while still being highly novel. As well, germ theory is tied to microscopic life and non-spontaneous generation (would one remember Pasteur’s sealed jar experiments or be able to reinvent them?) I was just reading a book on colonial Americans in London when I came across a mention of the discoverer of carbon dioxide; I reflected that I would have been easily able to demonstrate it just with a sealed jar and a flame and a mouse and a plant, but am I atypical in that regard? Would other people, even given years or decades pondering, be able to answer the question ‘how the deuce do I show these past people that air isn’t “air” but oxygen and carbon dioxide?’
I guess you could answer this question just by surveying people on how they would demonstrate such classic simple results.
Now, I’m not a scientist, but I think I could invent a steam engine if there was decent metallurgy already.
No way, unless perhaps you’re an amateur craftsman with a dazzling variety of practical skills and an extraordinary talent for improvization. And even if you managed to cobble together something that works, you likely wouldn’t be able to put it to any profitable use in the given economic circumstances.
the thought experiment requires me to handwave away lots of concerns
When you carefully consider the implications of those concerns, you’ll find that the “I” quickly loses its content when projected back in time to an earlier era. In short, it’s a question calling for a pseudo-proposition in answer.
Cf. Eric Flint, I’ve always found the idea of bringing technology back in time very interesting. Specifically, I’ve always wondered what technology I could independently invent and how early I could invent it. Of course, the thought experiment requires me to handwave away lots of concerns (like speaking the local language, not being killed as a heretic/outsider, and finding a patron).
Now, I’m not a scientist, but I think I could invent a steam engine if there was decent metallurgy already. Steam engine: Fill large enclosed container with water, heat water to boiling, steam goes through a tube to turn a crank, voila—useful work. So, 1000s in Europe, maybe?
I’d like to think that I could inspire someone like Descartes to invent calculus. But there’s no way I could invent in on my own.
Anyone else ever had similar thoughts?
Of course; it’s a common thought-experiment among geeks, ever since A Connecticut Yankee. There’s even a shirt stuffed with technical info in case one ever goes back in time.
(FWIW, I think you’d do better with conceptual stuff like Descartes and gravity, which you can explain to the local savant and work on hammering out the details together; metallurgy is hard, and it’s not like there weren’t steam engines before the industrial revolution—they were just uselessly weak and expensive. Low cost of labor means machines are too expensive to be worth bothering with.)
You’re probably right, but other than proving the Earth is round (which is not likely to need proving unless I go far back), there’s not a lot of useful things I can demonstrate to the savant. And telling the savant about germ theory or suchlike without being able to demonstrate it seems pretty useless to me.
I’ve always wondered how much ‘implicit’ knowledge we can take for granted. For example, the basic idea of randomized trials, while it has early forebears in Arabic stuff in the 1000s or whenever, is easy to explain and justify for any LWer while still being highly novel. As well, germ theory is tied to microscopic life and non-spontaneous generation (would one remember Pasteur’s sealed jar experiments or be able to reinvent them?) I was just reading a book on colonial Americans in London when I came across a mention of the discoverer of carbon dioxide; I reflected that I would have been easily able to demonstrate it just with a sealed jar and a flame and a mouse and a plant, but am I atypical in that regard? Would other people, even given years or decades pondering, be able to answer the question ‘how the deuce do I show these past people that air isn’t “air” but oxygen and carbon dioxide?’
I guess you could answer this question just by surveying people on how they would demonstrate such classic simple results.
No way, unless perhaps you’re an amateur craftsman with a dazzling variety of practical skills and an extraordinary talent for improvization. And even if you managed to cobble together something that works, you likely wouldn’t be able to put it to any profitable use in the given economic circumstances.
When you carefully consider the implications of those concerns, you’ll find that the “I” quickly loses its content when projected back in time to an earlier era. In short, it’s a question calling for a pseudo-proposition in answer.