They had an oral culture, much of which was eventually written down.
Do we have much evidence for peasant culture oral culture in say Western Europe being written down? Almost all classical sources I’m aware of are from the more literate end of things. What wasn’t written by nobles seems to have frequently been views of the emerging merchant classes and the like. Are there specific example sources you have in mind?
Do we have much evidence for peasant culture oral culture in say Western Europe being written down?
It’s called “folklore.”
What wasn’t written by nobles seems to have frequently been views of the emerging merchant classes and the like.
How hard do you have to look to find a King James Bible, letters between political leaders, or a copy of a monograph by a distinguished English scholar from 200 years ago? Not very, if you know where to start. Much of it may be available at your local library.
How hard do you have to look to find a Penny Dreadful, or a Marxist tract from the turn of the last century? Much harder.
The folklore we have is a) very late (e.g. Grimms is 1821) b) from fairly narrow areas. We have very few sources that date any time back to when there was still heavy feudal aspects.
How hard do you have to look to find a King James Bible, letters between political leaders, or a copy of a monograph by a distinguished English scholar from 200 years ago? Not very, if you know where to start. Much of it may be available at your local library.
How hard do you have to look to find a Penny Dreadful, or a Marxist tract from the turn of the last century?
Yes, and none of that is the stuff being written by peasants, so I’m confused by your point. Or are you agreeing with my point here?
You are confused. I am pointing out that preservation of written accounts is not a constant; not everything is deemed equally valuable and not everything is agreeable to those with the resources to do that preservation.
The folklore we have is a) very late (e.g. Grimms is 1821) b) from fairly narrow areas. We have very few sources that date any time back to when there was still heavy feudal aspects.
Um. Really? Because Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden would like a word with you.
am pointing out that preservation of written accounts is not a constant; not everything is deemed equally valuable and not everything is agreeable to those with the resources to do that preservation.
Ah, yes, I see. Ok. I understand the point.
Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden would like a word with yo
The point was, and maybe I wasn’t being clear, we don’t have much in the way of folklore type sources that were written in the feudal era. Is this wrong?
The point was, and maybe I wasn’t being clear, we don’t have much in the way of folklore type sources that were written in the feudal era. Is this wrong?
The earliest surviving written European folktale (excluding epics, semi-historical stories, and anything Greco-Roman) that I can think of off the top of my head is Le Roman de Renart, an early Reynard story written in the late 12th century. The Codex Regius, the oldest source for the Elder Edda, was written down a century or so later but is generally thought to represent folklore and mythology from an earlier point (though it’s difficult to judge how much is legit and how much is interpolation). There’s several others of slightly later vintage.
However, people only started aggressively collecting and reinterpreting European folklore in the 17th century or so, which is why pretty much all traditional European folktales that still get told passed through the likes of Perrault (a revisionist writer) or the Grimms (a bit more on the ethnographic side).
The short version is that we’ve got a few, but they’re pretty rare.
Do we have much evidence for peasant culture oral culture in say Western Europe being written down? Almost all classical sources I’m aware of are from the more literate end of things. What wasn’t written by nobles seems to have frequently been views of the emerging merchant classes and the like. Are there specific example sources you have in mind?
It’s called “folklore.”
How hard do you have to look to find a King James Bible, letters between political leaders, or a copy of a monograph by a distinguished English scholar from 200 years ago? Not very, if you know where to start. Much of it may be available at your local library.
How hard do you have to look to find a Penny Dreadful, or a Marxist tract from the turn of the last century? Much harder.
The folklore we have is a) very late (e.g. Grimms is 1821) b) from fairly narrow areas. We have very few sources that date any time back to when there was still heavy feudal aspects.
Yes, and none of that is the stuff being written by peasants, so I’m confused by your point. Or are you agreeing with my point here?
You are confused. I am pointing out that preservation of written accounts is not a constant; not everything is deemed equally valuable and not everything is agreeable to those with the resources to do that preservation.
Um. Really? Because Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden would like a word with you.
Ah, yes, I see. Ok. I understand the point.
The point was, and maybe I wasn’t being clear, we don’t have much in the way of folklore type sources that were written in the feudal era. Is this wrong?
The earliest surviving written European folktale (excluding epics, semi-historical stories, and anything Greco-Roman) that I can think of off the top of my head is Le Roman de Renart, an early Reynard story written in the late 12th century. The Codex Regius, the oldest source for the Elder Edda, was written down a century or so later but is generally thought to represent folklore and mythology from an earlier point (though it’s difficult to judge how much is legit and how much is interpolation). There’s several others of slightly later vintage.
However, people only started aggressively collecting and reinterpreting European folklore in the 17th century or so, which is why pretty much all traditional European folktales that still get told passed through the likes of Perrault (a revisionist writer) or the Grimms (a bit more on the ethnographic side).
The short version is that we’ve got a few, but they’re pretty rare.
That’s pretty close to my understanding then: We have isolated stuff, but no systematic or large scale collections until after the feudal period.