to think of Enlightenment as an amazing state of being that we should all aim for as rationalists
The “should” here is a red flag for me. By what criteria should we? It’s clearly pleasant, but toward what other goal is it useful? (I don’t especially think you’re wrong; I’m just pressing you to clarify.)
Can you describe more specifically the position in which you sat up on your bed and especially on the roof? Just the thought of sitting up without any back support for any length of time makes me wince a little bit.
Were you making notes as you went or did you remember all this, with fairly precise durations, afterwards?
The “should” here is a red flag for me. By what criteria should we? It’s clearly pleasant, but toward what other goal is it useful?
Hm, I tried to explain why in the next sentence:
The magnaminity, compassion, competence, acceptance, and feeling of awesomeness created by the jhanas should be cultivated and drawn upon whenever possible.
I just sort of assumed people would think of those as useful traits to have if possible. The Buddha was hella competent.
I just sort of assumed people would think of those as useful traits to have if possible.
I do. I’m giving you a hard time because I agree with you and I’m trying to figure out why I do, and why we believe the thing we agree on. But I can pick apart my values on my own time. :)
I definitely couldn’t do it without a folded towel and a pillow on top of it: I rest my backbone/spine on the edge of the pillow, with my legs resting out in front of the pillow on the ground. I should probably buy a zafu. Not having one would also make me wince; I figured everyone used pillows or something. The rest is more intuitive: legs crossed, spine/neck straight (level gaze, head back, but chin down), relaxed shoulders. More info is in the guide I linked to in the post.
Were you making notes as you went or did you remember all this, with fairly precise durations, afterwards?
I remembered it fairly precisely, and the times are all based off of post hoc guessing. It’s a bad sign I guess that I can remember all that, ’cuz it means I wasn’t really focused on my breath. I got a little too meta, I think: thinking about my meditation. I tried to pull my attention back to my breath and I did get some subtle facial numbness I associate with jhana (perhaps incorrectly) but I wasn’t able to keep it going long enough. (Also, thinking “Ah yes, I’m getting close to a jhana!” is a very natural and somewhat derailing thought.) Still though, the overall experience was very refreshing and peaceful. I’m not surprised that most people don’t have as intense an experience I had on their first try, but I am surprised that they don’t experience the subtler but still strong experiences of peacefulness, compassion, patience, even physical enjoyment, et cetera. Perhaps reading Mindfulness in Plain English would help?
Ooh, I bet I could make one of those. I’d still be a bit worried about my back, but honestly the problem there is my posture, which is fixable (and worth fixing independently of this reason).
Perhaps reading Mindfulness in Plain English would help?
Indeed—I have it open in a tab but haven’t gotten to it yet. Sorry for the redundant questions and thanks for the answers.
(Typo)
The “should” here is a red flag for me. By what criteria should we? It’s clearly pleasant, but toward what other goal is it useful? (I don’t especially think you’re wrong; I’m just pressing you to clarify.)
Can you describe more specifically the position in which you sat up on your bed and especially on the roof? Just the thought of sitting up without any back support for any length of time makes me wince a little bit.
Were you making notes as you went or did you remember all this, with fairly precise durations, afterwards?
Hm, I tried to explain why in the next sentence:
I just sort of assumed people would think of those as useful traits to have if possible. The Buddha was hella competent.
I do. I’m giving you a hard time because I agree with you and I’m trying to figure out why I do, and why we believe the thing we agree on. But I can pick apart my values on my own time. :)
I definitely couldn’t do it without a folded towel and a pillow on top of it: I rest my backbone/spine on the edge of the pillow, with my legs resting out in front of the pillow on the ground. I should probably buy a zafu. Not having one would also make me wince; I figured everyone used pillows or something. The rest is more intuitive: legs crossed, spine/neck straight (level gaze, head back, but chin down), relaxed shoulders. More info is in the guide I linked to in the post.
I remembered it fairly precisely, and the times are all based off of post hoc guessing. It’s a bad sign I guess that I can remember all that, ’cuz it means I wasn’t really focused on my breath. I got a little too meta, I think: thinking about my meditation. I tried to pull my attention back to my breath and I did get some subtle facial numbness I associate with jhana (perhaps incorrectly) but I wasn’t able to keep it going long enough. (Also, thinking “Ah yes, I’m getting close to a jhana!” is a very natural and somewhat derailing thought.) Still though, the overall experience was very refreshing and peaceful. I’m not surprised that most people don’t have as intense an experience I had on their first try, but I am surprised that they don’t experience the subtler but still strong experiences of peacefulness, compassion, patience, even physical enjoyment, et cetera. Perhaps reading Mindfulness in Plain English would help?
Ooh, I bet I could make one of those. I’d still be a bit worried about my back, but honestly the problem there is my posture, which is fixable (and worth fixing independently of this reason).
Indeed—I have it open in a tab but haven’t gotten to it yet. Sorry for the redundant questions and thanks for the answers.