I just want to say that as a man, I’m horrified by what submitters A & B observed/endured, and I hope they learn some day that most of us guys aren’t like that.
What evidence do you have that most men are in fact not like that? (Disclaimer: I am also male. Also, thanks for the porn and masturbation links. Seems worth looking more into.)
He didn’t even asert that most aren’t, he can hope that it is true and she learns it, can’t she?
However, it does seem fair that that would be the higher prior.
“I hope that one day you learn that p” doesn’t mean “I hope that p is the case and one day you learn it”. It presupposes p and asserts “I hope that one day you learn it”.
Well, you’re presupposing his presupposition there.
Regardless, I think demanding evidence for the statement that not all men, for example, are prone to beating or abusing their daughters is a much, much stronger presupposition.
I mean, seriously, are we at the point where the prior is greater for ‘all x are y’ than ‘not all x are y’ ?
Whether or not hg00 has evidence of it, I can personally point to, well, nearly every man I know personally, including myself and my father.
I’m not quite sure what you’re talking about. The statement in question—the one that was presupposed—is neither of the form ‘all x are y’ nor ‘not all x are y’, but of the form ‘most x are not y’.
You’re right, it does read “most of us are not like that,” which I read incorrectly as “not all of us are like that.” I still think requesting evidence for that sounds a bit off, but it no longer looks that the presumption of Qiaochu_Yuan in asking for evidence is so unreasonable. I (unoffically) retract my comments and tone.
Though I hope everyone, after looking at evidence, does in fact learn what my experience has been, that most men are not like that.
And as I attempted to clarify above, the preference for my experience not to be a merely sampling effect but indicative of broader population is a part of what the word ‘hope’ is refering to.
What evidence do you have that most men are in fact not like that? (Disclaimer: I am also male. Also, thanks for the porn and masturbation links. Seems worth looking more into.)
He didn’t even asert that most aren’t, he can hope that it is true and she learns it, can’t she? However, it does seem fair that that would be the higher prior.
He didn’t assert it, he presupposed it.
“I hope that one day you learn that p” doesn’t mean “I hope that p is the case and one day you learn it”. It presupposes p and asserts “I hope that one day you learn it”.
Well, you’re presupposing his presupposition there.
Regardless, I think demanding evidence for the statement that not all men, for example, are prone to beating or abusing their daughters is a much, much stronger presupposition.
I mean, seriously, are we at the point where the prior is greater for ‘all x are y’ than ‘not all x are y’ ?
Whether or not hg00 has evidence of it, I can personally point to, well, nearly every man I know personally, including myself and my father.
I’m not quite sure what you’re talking about. The statement in question—the one that was presupposed—is neither of the form ‘all x are y’ nor ‘not all x are y’, but of the form ‘most x are not y’.
You’re right, it does read “most of us are not like that,” which I read incorrectly as “not all of us are like that.” I still think requesting evidence for that sounds a bit off, but it no longer looks that the presumption of Qiaochu_Yuan in asking for evidence is so unreasonable. I (unoffically) retract my comments and tone.
Though I hope everyone, after looking at evidence, does in fact learn what my experience has been, that most men are not like that.
As was pointed elsewhere (I don’t remember to whom, so if it was to you, sorry for that), the men you know may be a biased sample.
And as I attempted to clarify above, the preference for my experience not to be a merely sampling effect but indicative of broader population is a part of what the word ‘hope’ is refering to.