The abuse I received was rarely, if ever, related to me being a boy,
How do you know that? The expectations he had for you had nothing to do with being a boy? Did he give all the same abuse to your sister? He never called you wimp, faggot, queer, etc.?
After listening to a little men’s rights talk, there really is a lot of discrimination against men that is entirely approved of by society, and not recognized at all. “It’s not because they are boys.”
It would be helpful to get beyond the competition over who has it worse, and just be opposed to any and all unfair discrimination. I think the problem are the proposed remedies. They’re not opposition to discrimination, but further discrimination claiming to balance the game. Problem is, that requires a comprehensive balancing of all factors in the game, and not just opposition to particular agreed injustices.
Lots of dads get particularly wound up about their daughters sexuality. One of the uglier bits of life.
Being obligated to be a more or less normal boy is something that a lot of boys can manage. It’s an abusive requirement when it’s something a particular boy can’t do or strongly dislikes doing.
A girl can’t stop being a girl.
What westward is talking about is a girl being attacked for being a girl. What you’re talking about (and it’s a quite serious issue) is boys being attacked for not being good enough at being boys.
I’m not denying that there’s gender-based abuse of boys. I even know a couple of men who grew up in families that strongly preferred girls.
It took me a lot of years to understand what “misogyny” meant, and I’m usually good at figuring out words from context. My problem with the word was that I’d grown up in a family which valued girls and boys about equally, and I had a hard time wrapping my mind around the idea that there are a lot of people (mostly but not entirely male, I think) who hate women.
What westward is talking about is a girl being attacked for being a girl.
I don’t this particularly convincing. She likely could have “managed” his oppressive expectations with sufficient obedience and deference as well.
And I don’t want to be speculating on his situation in the third person. Unless you’ve discussed these issues personally with him, I think you’re jumping to conclusions based on what he said.
I get the feeling we’ve been here before. The previous installment of The LW Women Speak? One limitation I saw last time was the arguing over broad generalizations, particularly over the balance of harm. This tends to look and feel like the minimizing of harm.
So to be concrete, I strongly disapprove of a father shrieking “whore” at their daughters, and see great harm to a daughter in it.
If there are more failure modes for being female than male, it’s worth noting that the target a girl would be trying to hit with expectation management is a lot smaller.
If social expectations are for women to be expectation-managers more than men … possibly related?
I don’t think smaller vs. bigger makes sense—basically incommeasurable in terms of size. In terms of being comparable, off the top of my head I’d that that girls are expected to refrain more, while boys are expected to achieve more. It’s more stultifying to have to refrain, but in one sense easier, since it is a matter of will and not talent. From the judgment of their parents, girls may be considered rule violators, but they aren’t subject to failure as much as boys are.
How do you know that? The expectations he had for you had nothing to do with being a boy? Did he give all the same abuse to your sister? He never called you wimp, faggot, queer, etc.?
After listening to a little men’s rights talk, there really is a lot of discrimination against men that is entirely approved of by society, and not recognized at all. “It’s not because they are boys.”
It would be helpful to get beyond the competition over who has it worse, and just be opposed to any and all unfair discrimination. I think the problem are the proposed remedies. They’re not opposition to discrimination, but further discrimination claiming to balance the game. Problem is, that requires a comprehensive balancing of all factors in the game, and not just opposition to particular agreed injustices.
Lots of dads get particularly wound up about their daughters sexuality. One of the uglier bits of life.
Being obligated to be a more or less normal boy is something that a lot of boys can manage. It’s an abusive requirement when it’s something a particular boy can’t do or strongly dislikes doing.
A girl can’t stop being a girl.
What westward is talking about is a girl being attacked for being a girl. What you’re talking about (and it’s a quite serious issue) is boys being attacked for not being good enough at being boys.
I’m not denying that there’s gender-based abuse of boys. I even know a couple of men who grew up in families that strongly preferred girls.
It took me a lot of years to understand what “misogyny” meant, and I’m usually good at figuring out words from context. My problem with the word was that I’d grown up in a family which valued girls and boys about equally, and I had a hard time wrapping my mind around the idea that there are a lot of people (mostly but not entirely male, I think) who hate women.
I don’t this particularly convincing. She likely could have “managed” his oppressive expectations with sufficient obedience and deference as well.
And I don’t want to be speculating on his situation in the third person. Unless you’ve discussed these issues personally with him, I think you’re jumping to conclusions based on what he said.
I get the feeling we’ve been here before. The previous installment of The LW Women Speak? One limitation I saw last time was the arguing over broad generalizations, particularly over the balance of harm. This tends to look and feel like the minimizing of harm.
So to be concrete, I strongly disapprove of a father shrieking “whore” at their daughters, and see great harm to a daughter in it.
For a series of videos on the lifelong liability of child abuse, see Stefan Molyneux: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB3F2CF45EEB95C80
If there are more failure modes for being female than male, it’s worth noting that the target a girl would be trying to hit with expectation management is a lot smaller.
If social expectations are for women to be expectation-managers more than men … possibly related?
I don’t think smaller vs. bigger makes sense—basically incommeasurable in terms of size. In terms of being comparable, off the top of my head I’d that that girls are expected to refrain more, while boys are expected to achieve more. It’s more stultifying to have to refrain, but in one sense easier, since it is a matter of will and not talent. From the judgment of their parents, girls may be considered rule violators, but they aren’t subject to failure as much as boys are.