It’s definitely like symbol grounding, though symbol grounding is usually IIUC about “giving meaning to symbols”, which I think has the emphasis on epistemic signifying?
Right, but I feel like I want to say something like “value grounding” as its analogue.
Also… I do think there is a crucial epistemic dymension to values, and the “[symbol/value] grounding” thing seems like one place where this shows quite well.
For example, I reach out and pick up some blueberries. This is some kind of expression of my values, but how so? Where are the values?
Are the values in my hands? Are they entirely in my hands, or not at all in my hands? The circuits that control my hands do what they do with regard to blueberries by virtue of my hands being the way they are. If my hands were different, e.g. really small or polydactylous, my hand-controller circuits would be different and would behave differently when getting blueberries. And the deeper circuits that coordinate visual recognition of blueberries, and the deeper circuits that coordinate the whole blueberry-getting system and correct errors based on blueberrywise success or failure, would also be different. Are the values in my visual cortext? The deeper circuits require some interface with my visual cortex, to do blueberry find-and-pick-upping. And having served that role, my visual cortex is specially trained for that task, and it will even promote blueberries in my visual field to my attention more readily than yours will to you. And my spatial memory has a nearest-blueberries slot, like those people who always know which direction is north.
It may be objected that the proximal hand-controllers and the blueberry visual circuits are downstream of other deeper circuits, and since they are downstream, they can be excluded from constituting the value. But that’s not so clear. To like blueberries, I have to know what blueberries are, and to know what blueberries are I have to interact with them. The fact that I value blueberries relies on me being able to refer to blueberries. Certainly, if my hands were different but comparably versatile, then I would learn to use them to refer to blueberries about as well as my real hands do. But the reference to (and hence the value of) blueberries must pass through something playing the role that hands play. The hands, or something else, must play that role in constituting the fact that I value blueberries.
The situation is like how an abstract concept, once gained, doesn’t overwrite and obselete what was abstracted from. Maxwell’s equations don’t annihilate Faraday’s experiments in their detail. The experiments are unified in idea—metaphorically, the field structures are a “cross-section” of the messy detailed structure of any given experiment. The abstract concepts, to say something about a specific concrete experimental situation, have to be paired with specific concrete calculations and referential connections. The concrete situations are still there, even if we now, with our new abstract concepts, want to describe them differently.
Is reference essentially diasystemic?
If so, then values are essentially diasystemic.
Reference goes through unfolding.
To refer to something in reality is to be brought (or rather, bringable) to the thing. To be brought to a thing is to go to where the thing really is, through whatever medium is between the mind and where the thing really is. The “really is” calls on future novelty. See “pointing at reality through novelty”.
In other words, reference is open—maybe radically open. It’s supposed to incorporate whatever novelty the mind encounters—maybe deeply.
An open element will potentially relate to (radical, diasystemic) novelty, so its way of relating to other elements can’t be fully stereotyped by preexisting elements with their preexisting manifest relations.
It’s definitely like symbol grounding, though symbol grounding is usually IIUC about “giving meaning to symbols”, which I think has the emphasis on epistemic signifying?
Right, but I feel like I want to say something like “value grounding” as its analogue.
Also… I do think there is a crucial epistemic dymension to values, and the “[symbol/value] grounding” thing seems like one place where this shows quite well.
Ok yeah I agree with this. Related: https://tsvibt.blogspot.com/2023/09/the-cosmopolitan-leviathan-enthymeme.html#pointing-at-reality-through-novelty
And an excerpt from a work in progress:
Example: Blueberries
For example, I reach out and pick up some blueberries. This is some kind of expression of my values, but how so? Where are the values?
Are the values in my hands? Are they entirely in my hands, or not at all in my hands? The circuits that control my hands do what they do with regard to blueberries by virtue of my hands being the way they are. If my hands were different, e.g. really small or polydactylous, my hand-controller circuits would be different and would behave differently when getting blueberries. And the deeper circuits that coordinate visual recognition of blueberries, and the deeper circuits that coordinate the whole blueberry-getting system and correct errors based on blueberrywise success or failure, would also be different. Are the values in my visual cortext? The deeper circuits require some interface with my visual cortex, to do blueberry find-and-pick-upping. And having served that role, my visual cortex is specially trained for that task, and it will even promote blueberries in my visual field to my attention more readily than yours will to you. And my spatial memory has a nearest-blueberries slot, like those people who always know which direction is north.
It may be objected that the proximal hand-controllers and the blueberry visual circuits are downstream of other deeper circuits, and since they are downstream, they can be excluded from constituting the value. But that’s not so clear. To like blueberries, I have to know what blueberries are, and to know what blueberries are I have to interact with them. The fact that I value blueberries relies on me being able to refer to blueberries. Certainly, if my hands were different but comparably versatile, then I would learn to use them to refer to blueberries about as well as my real hands do. But the reference to (and hence the value of) blueberries must pass through something playing the role that hands play. The hands, or something else, must play that role in constituting the fact that I value blueberries.
The concrete is never lost
In general, values are founded on reference. The context that makes a value a value has to provide reference.
The situation is like how an abstract concept, once gained, doesn’t overwrite and obselete what was abstracted from. Maxwell’s equations don’t annihilate Faraday’s experiments in their detail. The experiments are unified in idea—metaphorically, the field structures are a “cross-section” of the messy detailed structure of any given experiment. The abstract concepts, to say something about a specific concrete experimental situation, have to be paired with specific concrete calculations and referential connections. The concrete situations are still there, even if we now, with our new abstract concepts, want to describe them differently.
Is reference essentially diasystemic?
If so, then values are essentially diasystemic.
To refer to something in reality is to be brought (or rather, bringable) to the thing. To be brought to a thing is to go to where the thing really is, through whatever medium is between the mind and where the thing really is. The “really is” calls on future novelty. See “pointing at reality through novelty”.
In other words, reference is open—maybe radically open. It’s supposed to incorporate whatever novelty the mind encounters—maybe deeply.
An open element will potentially relate to (radical, diasystemic) novelty, so its way of relating to other elements can’t be fully stereotyped by preexisting elements with their preexisting manifest relations.