No. The approach to understanding human psychology, though, tends to be broader—because post-rationalists draw on old cultural wisdom, and also because some of them read people like Freud who are often considered useless by x-rationalists. More of an emphasis is also placed on neurochemistry and nutrition. Both kinds of rationalists study neuroscience, cognitive science, social psychology, &c.
What snazzy label do I get if I:
draw on old cultural wisdom (selectively, depending on to what degree the cultural knowledge is relevant and often after passing it through a “social speak → literal map” filter).
Dismiss people like Freud out of hand because there are other books to read that can be expected to be far more reliable and less annoying.
Place an excessive amount of emphasis on neurochemistry and nutrition
Don’t believe any whacked out shit like that there are gods and soforth.
To be honest I had assumed “post-rationalists” had to do something rather distinctly irrational (or take an arational interest to the extreme) before they qualified for the title.
(ETA: Downvoter, fuck you, I’m going out of my way to answer a question.
One of the most obnoxious voting behaviors out there. I honestly prefer a systematic down-voters downvoting the first three pages of the user-comment thread than to downvotes when I’m going out of the way to answer a question for someone else.
’Course, now that this is here further downvotes are justified and won’t be responded to with “fuck you”s, don’t worry.
What snazzy label do I get if I:
Dismiss people like Freud out of hand because there are other books to read that can be expected to be far more reliable and less annoying.
Usually I see people dismissing Freud without explaining. How am I supposed to know why? It’s obvious that they prefer some other explanation, but I don’t know which one.
As an analogy, imagine that you live in a country where many people don’t believe that objects heavier than air could fly. Then you hear someone saying “Wright brothers’ airplane design is really stupid”. One possible interpretation is that you shouldn’t use a century old airplane design, when better and safer alternatives exist. Other possible interpretation is that the person is one of those who believe that objects heavier than air cannot fly. From merely saying this (and getting a lot of applause) it is impossible to guess which variant it correct. (Actually different people may be giving applause under different interpretations.)
Just like this, when someone just says “Freud’s psychoanalysis is stupid” without more details, I have two explanations. One is that human thinking and sexuality is best explained by evolutionary psychology, so we should get ideas from there, and not from Freud’s speculations. Another possible explanation is that given person just doesn’t believe that reproduction could play significant role in forming human mind, because [insert religious or politically correct belief]. Or perhaps the person does not believe in “unconsciousness”, because they believe that their decisions are always 100% rational. (Again, different people responding “me too” can use different interpretations.)
I’m just speaking for myself here, but if you say “don’t read Freud, read evolutionary psychology instead”, I know what you say, and I agree with you. If you just say “don’t read Freud”, we don’t have a communication, just an illusion of transparency. There are still many people around, who consider Freud wrong for the wrong reasons (hate him for saying that something as low as reproduction could have a role in something as noble as a human mind).
I’m just speaking for myself here, but if you say “don’t read Freud, read evolutionary psychology instead”, I know what you say, and I agree with you. If you just say “don’t read Freud”, we don’t have a communication, just an illusion of transparency.
That is a communication. It suggests that instead of reading Freud you do whatever other things in life that you like to do, including nothing. You can disagree with the communicated recommendation of not reading Freud without a suggested alternative but you cannot (correctly) claim that nothing has been communicated.
See my analogy—by suggesting that “instead of studying Wright brothers’ airplane do whatever other things you like to do, including nothing” something is communicated, but.… I guess I would say I agree denotationally, but I am unable to decipher the connotation, though I feel pretty sure there is one.
Human communication isn’t just about communicating, it is also about signalling; in this case signalling loyalty to some virtual tribe, also known as “mindkilling”.
Another analogy: If I said repeatedly “don’t ever bother listening to Obama”, and after requests for clarification I explained that I did not mean to express any political argument whatsoever, only completely neutrally and rationally suggested that “doing what you want, including nothing, will bring you more utilons that listening to Obama”, would you say that this manner of speach is acceptable by LW social norms?
but I am unable to decipher the connotation, though I feel pretty sure there is one.
That saying “reading Freud is a waste of time” is perfectly fine because reading Freud really is a waste of time (except for signalling affiliations). It isn’t required that a further statement also be made about which psychologist should be read instead. That is a separate piece of information that may also be communicated.
If you happen to disagree that reading Freud is a waste of time that still doesn’t make the claim not communication. It is communicating something that you disagree with and to say that it is “not communication” is just false.
Another analogy: If I said repeatedly “don’t ever bother listening to Obama”, and after requests for clarification I explained that I did not mean to express any political argument whatsoever, only completely neutrally and rationally suggested that “doing what you want, including nothing, will bring you more utilons that listening to Obama”, would you say that this manner of speach is acceptable by LW social norms?
People prefer talking about psychology than talking about politics here. If you chose an example that wasn’t so loaded then yes, I would say the general form was perfectly acceptable.
What snazzy label do I get if I:
draw on old cultural wisdom (selectively, depending on to what degree the cultural knowledge is relevant and often after passing it through a “social speak → literal map” filter).
Dismiss people like Freud out of hand because there are other books to read that can be expected to be far more reliable and less annoying.
Place an excessive amount of emphasis on neurochemistry and nutrition
Don’t believe any whacked out shit like that there are gods and soforth.
To be honest I had assumed “post-rationalists” had to do something rather distinctly irrational (or take an arational interest to the extreme) before they qualified for the title.
One of the most obnoxious voting behaviors out there. I honestly prefer a systematic down-voters downvoting the first three pages of the user-comment thread than to downvotes when I’m going out of the way to answer a question for someone else.
Like it.
Usually I see people dismissing Freud without explaining. How am I supposed to know why? It’s obvious that they prefer some other explanation, but I don’t know which one.
As an analogy, imagine that you live in a country where many people don’t believe that objects heavier than air could fly. Then you hear someone saying “Wright brothers’ airplane design is really stupid”. One possible interpretation is that you shouldn’t use a century old airplane design, when better and safer alternatives exist. Other possible interpretation is that the person is one of those who believe that objects heavier than air cannot fly. From merely saying this (and getting a lot of applause) it is impossible to guess which variant it correct. (Actually different people may be giving applause under different interpretations.)
Just like this, when someone just says “Freud’s psychoanalysis is stupid” without more details, I have two explanations. One is that human thinking and sexuality is best explained by evolutionary psychology, so we should get ideas from there, and not from Freud’s speculations. Another possible explanation is that given person just doesn’t believe that reproduction could play significant role in forming human mind, because [insert religious or politically correct belief]. Or perhaps the person does not believe in “unconsciousness”, because they believe that their decisions are always 100% rational. (Again, different people responding “me too” can use different interpretations.)
I’m just speaking for myself here, but if you say “don’t read Freud, read evolutionary psychology instead”, I know what you say, and I agree with you. If you just say “don’t read Freud”, we don’t have a communication, just an illusion of transparency. There are still many people around, who consider Freud wrong for the wrong reasons (hate him for saying that something as low as reproduction could have a role in something as noble as a human mind).
That is a communication. It suggests that instead of reading Freud you do whatever other things in life that you like to do, including nothing. You can disagree with the communicated recommendation of not reading Freud without a suggested alternative but you cannot (correctly) claim that nothing has been communicated.
See my analogy—by suggesting that “instead of studying Wright brothers’ airplane do whatever other things you like to do, including nothing” something is communicated, but.… I guess I would say I agree denotationally, but I am unable to decipher the connotation, though I feel pretty sure there is one.
Human communication isn’t just about communicating, it is also about signalling; in this case signalling loyalty to some virtual tribe, also known as “mindkilling”.
Another analogy: If I said repeatedly “don’t ever bother listening to Obama”, and after requests for clarification I explained that I did not mean to express any political argument whatsoever, only completely neutrally and rationally suggested that “doing what you want, including nothing, will bring you more utilons that listening to Obama”, would you say that this manner of speach is acceptable by LW social norms?
That saying “reading Freud is a waste of time” is perfectly fine because reading Freud really is a waste of time (except for signalling affiliations). It isn’t required that a further statement also be made about which psychologist should be read instead. That is a separate piece of information that may also be communicated.
If you happen to disagree that reading Freud is a waste of time that still doesn’t make the claim not communication. It is communicating something that you disagree with and to say that it is “not communication” is just false.
People prefer talking about psychology than talking about politics here. If you chose an example that wasn’t so loaded then yes, I would say the general form was perfectly acceptable.