I genuinely don’t understand, what exactly is the “true self” you’re trying to protect in this case? I can see how drugs and alcohol are essentially wireheading, making you feel like you achieved something of value while in fact your didn’t (or otherwise affecting your judgement through various “undocumented back doors”). But hormones and neurotransmitters are not something external, they are you, or more specifically a part of the physical implementation of any reasonable definition of “your self”. Your motivation for whatever is it you feel it’s appropriate to be motivated for is also mediated by hormones, only (maybe) slightly different ones.
To be clear, I completely understand a position “I want to be more motivated by X and less motivated by Y of my lower-level desires”, e.g. more motivated by the fear of death and less motivated by impulse to eat tasty food. But, I don’t understand how the fact that all of those desires are mediated by hormones makes some of them “less true” than others? Or what does it even mean for them to be “less true”?
I suspect that he’s using “true self” to refer to facets of himself that a psychologist would call ego-syntonic. Simply put, ego-syntonic facets of oneself are in accordance with a person’s self-image and ego-dystonic facets of oneself are at odds with one’s self-conception. The actual person is ultimately the “true” self, warts and all.
It is as much a function of a person’s self-concept as it is of the person’s behavior. For example, homosexuality can be ego-dystonic (closeted; in denial) or ego-syntonic (self-accepted, if not necessarily public).
It is often mature and appropriate to pursue ego-syntonic goals to try to become the person you want to be. On the other hand, each of us has behaviors that resist improvement (as our self-concepts define “improvement”); learning to accept and accommodate the facets of yourself that resist change can also be healthy.
I think your comment shows me I’ve failed to clearly communicate my intent with this post. So to me, not drinking and not doing drugs help me being my true self(which is a big topic on its own, and one I don’t wish to explain here), but not having sex does not—I was mostly discussing this for the context of how I stumbled upon the idea that there might be benefits to not having sex, in that it’s an idea frequently discussed within the straight-edge community. In the end, I do not believe having sex prevents you too much from being your true self (apart from the discovery of the in-group / out-group mentality that is amplified by it). I know other straight-edge people say it also has to do with self-control, and it is true that sex can be addictive to some (or make you interact differently to people), which are both factors that I’d say prevent you from being your true self, but I’m not super sensitive to those two arguments → except when it comes to toxic relationships, which was one of the core interests of this blogpost. And making a big place to someone who doesn’t actually deserve to be there can be dangerous in the most extreme cases, and a waste of time at best. I wanna spend time with people because they bring me value, not because I’m addicted to them (and yes, sex can definitely be a value, but when it comes with a toxic relationship, or with time together outside of the sexual encounters that we’d rather put somewhere else and that we just spend in the hopes of having sex, I think it might not be worth the cost).
Yeah, may be my sloppy reading but I definitely didn’t realize that you’re saying sex is not potentially harmful to true selfhood, I thought you’re saying it is. I agree that the hormonal effects you’re describing can be counterproductive to many other goals (or even to the goal of having sex in some cases) and worth being aware of. It’s only the idea of them being somehow qualitatively different from other motivations that I was arguing against.
discovery of the in-group / out-group mentality that is amplified by it
Can you elaborate on that? Is it supposed to mean that sex amplifies us vs them mentality?
Yes that’s what it means. It’s specifically addressed in my blogpost (based on 3 studies, referred in the footnotes):
“Which is where this hormone’s double-edged sword emerges. Excellent recent work has shown that oxytocin does indeed promote pro-social behavior, but crucially, only toward in-group members. In contrast, when dealing with out-group members or strangers, oxytocin’s effects are the opposite. In such settings, the hormone decreases trust, and enhances envy and gloating for the successes and failures, respectively, of the out-group member. Moreover, the hormone makes people more pre-emptively aggressive to out-group members, and enhances unconscious biases toward them. In other words, a hormone touted for its capacity to enhance pro-sociality does no such thing. Instead, what it does is worsen Us/Them dichotomies, enhancing in-group parochialism as well as outgroup xenophobia.”
And I do say sex can be potentially harmful to true selfhood, but it’s not my main point/concern at all.
I genuinely don’t understand, what exactly is the “true self” you’re trying to protect in this case? I can see how drugs and alcohol are essentially wireheading, making you feel like you achieved something of value while in fact your didn’t (or otherwise affecting your judgement through various “undocumented back doors”). But hormones and neurotransmitters are not something external, they are you, or more specifically a part of the physical implementation of any reasonable definition of “your self”. Your motivation for whatever is it you feel it’s appropriate to be motivated for is also mediated by hormones, only (maybe) slightly different ones.
To be clear, I completely understand a position “I want to be more motivated by X and less motivated by Y of my lower-level desires”, e.g. more motivated by the fear of death and less motivated by impulse to eat tasty food. But, I don’t understand how the fact that all of those desires are mediated by hormones makes some of them “less true” than others? Or what does it even mean for them to be “less true”?
I suspect that he’s using “true self” to refer to facets of himself that a psychologist would call ego-syntonic. Simply put, ego-syntonic facets of oneself are in accordance with a person’s self-image and ego-dystonic facets of oneself are at odds with one’s self-conception. The actual person is ultimately the “true” self, warts and all.
It is as much a function of a person’s self-concept as it is of the person’s behavior. For example, homosexuality can be ego-dystonic (closeted; in denial) or ego-syntonic (self-accepted, if not necessarily public).
It is often mature and appropriate to pursue ego-syntonic goals to try to become the person you want to be. On the other hand, each of us has behaviors that resist improvement (as our self-concepts define “improvement”); learning to accept and accommodate the facets of yourself that resist change can also be healthy.
Thanks, that was an interesting reply :)
I think your comment shows me I’ve failed to clearly communicate my intent with this post. So to me, not drinking and not doing drugs help me being my true self(which is a big topic on its own, and one I don’t wish to explain here), but not having sex does not—I was mostly discussing this for the context of how I stumbled upon the idea that there might be benefits to not having sex, in that it’s an idea frequently discussed within the straight-edge community. In the end, I do not believe having sex prevents you too much from being your true self (apart from the discovery of the in-group / out-group mentality that is amplified by it). I know other straight-edge people say it also has to do with self-control, and it is true that sex can be addictive to some (or make you interact differently to people), which are both factors that I’d say prevent you from being your true self, but I’m not super sensitive to those two arguments → except when it comes to toxic relationships, which was one of the core interests of this blogpost. And making a big place to someone who doesn’t actually deserve to be there can be dangerous in the most extreme cases, and a waste of time at best. I wanna spend time with people because they bring me value, not because I’m addicted to them (and yes, sex can definitely be a value, but when it comes with a toxic relationship, or with time together outside of the sexual encounters that we’d rather put somewhere else and that we just spend in the hopes of having sex, I think it might not be worth the cost).
Yeah, may be my sloppy reading but I definitely didn’t realize that you’re saying sex is not potentially harmful to true selfhood, I thought you’re saying it is. I agree that the hormonal effects you’re describing can be counterproductive to many other goals (or even to the goal of having sex in some cases) and worth being aware of. It’s only the idea of them being somehow qualitatively different from other motivations that I was arguing against.
Can you elaborate on that? Is it supposed to mean that sex amplifies us vs them mentality?
Yes that’s what it means. It’s specifically addressed in my blogpost (based on 3 studies, referred in the footnotes):
“Which is where this hormone’s double-edged sword emerges. Excellent recent work has shown that oxytocin does indeed promote pro-social behavior, but crucially, only toward in-group members. In contrast, when dealing with out-group members or strangers, oxytocin’s effects are the opposite. In such settings, the hormone decreases trust, and enhances envy and gloating for the successes and failures, respectively, of the out-group member. Moreover, the hormone makes people more pre-emptively aggressive to out-group members, and enhances unconscious biases toward them. In other words, a hormone touted for its capacity to enhance pro-sociality does no such thing. Instead, what it does is worsen Us/Them dichotomies, enhancing in-group parochialism as well as outgroup xenophobia.”
And I do say sex can be potentially harmful to true selfhood, but it’s not my main point/concern at all.