A key part of what makes LDS wards work, is the callings system. The bishop (leader of the ward) has a large number of roles he needs to fill. He does this by giving arbitrary ward members a calling, which essentially is just assigning a person to a role, and telling them what they need to do, with the implication that it is your duty to fulfill it (though it’s not explicitly punished, if you decline). Some examples are things like “Choir director”, “Sunbeams (3-4 year olds I think) teacher”, “Young Men’s president”, “Young Men’s Secretary”, “Usher”. It’s intentionally set up so that approximately every active member currently has a calling. New callings are announced at the beginning of church to the entire ward, and the bishop tries to make sure no one has the same calling for too long.
Wards are organized into Stakes, which are led by the “Stake President” and use a similar system. “Bishop” itself, is a calling at this level. And every few months, there will be a “Stake Conference” which will bring all the wards together for church. There are often youth activities at this level, quite a lot of effort is put into making sure young Mormons have plenty of chances to meet other young Mormons.
(Maybe you already know all that, but Just including that since I think the system works pretty well in practice and is not very well-known outside of Mormon spaces. I’m not suggesting adopting it.)
Those generally sound like good directions to take things. I’m most worried about 2, I think there’s potentially something toxic about the framing of “rationality habits” in general, which has previously led to a culture of there being all these rationality “tricks” that would solve all your problems (I know CFAR doesn’t frame things like this, I just think it’s an inherent way that the concept of “rationality habit” slips in people’s minds), which in turn leads to people uncritically trying dubious techniques that fuck them up.
And I agree that the rationality community hasn’t really had that, and I would also say that we haven’t supported the people who have tried to fill that role.
I’m most worried about 2, I think there’s potentially something toxic about the framing of “rationality habits” in general, which has previously led to a culture of there being all these rationality “tricks” that would solve all your problems … which in turn leads to people uncritically trying dubious techniques that fuck them up.
Could you say a bit more here, please?
(not a direct response, but:) My belief has been that there are loads of people in the bay area doing dubious things that mess them up (eg tulpas, drugs, weird sex things, weird cult things—both in the rationalist diaspora, and in the bay area broadly), but this is mostly people aiming to be edgy and do “weird/cool/powerful” things, not people trying CFAR techniques as such.
A key part of what makes LDS wards work, is the callings system. The bishop (leader of the ward) has a large number of roles he needs to fill. He does this by giving arbitrary ward members a calling, which essentially is just assigning a person to a role, and telling them what they need to do, with the implication that it is your duty to fulfill it (though it’s not explicitly punished, if you decline). Some examples are things like “Choir director”, “Sunbeams (3-4 year olds I think) teacher”, “Young Men’s president”, “Young Men’s Secretary”, “Usher”. It’s intentionally set up so that approximately every active member currently has a calling. New callings are announced at the beginning of church to the entire ward, and the bishop tries to make sure no one has the same calling for too long.
Wards are organized into Stakes, which are led by the “Stake President” and use a similar system. “Bishop” itself, is a calling at this level. And every few months, there will be a “Stake Conference” which will bring all the wards together for church. There are often youth activities at this level, quite a lot of effort is put into making sure young Mormons have plenty of chances to meet other young Mormons.
(Maybe you already know all that, but Just including that since I think the system works pretty well in practice and is not very well-known outside of Mormon spaces. I’m not suggesting adopting it.)
Those generally sound like good directions to take things. I’m most worried about 2, I think there’s potentially something toxic about the framing of “rationality habits” in general, which has previously led to a culture of there being all these rationality “tricks” that would solve all your problems (I know CFAR doesn’t frame things like this, I just think it’s an inherent way that the concept of “rationality habit” slips in people’s minds), which in turn leads to people uncritically trying dubious techniques that fuck them up.
And I agree that the rationality community hasn’t really had that, and I would also say that we haven’t supported the people who have tried to fill that role.
Could you say a bit more here, please?
(not a direct response, but:) My belief has been that there are loads of people in the bay area doing dubious things that mess them up (eg tulpas, drugs, weird sex things, weird cult things—both in the rationalist diaspora, and in the bay area broadly), but this is mostly people aiming to be edgy and do “weird/cool/powerful” things, not people trying CFAR techniques as such.
(Nevermind, after thinking about it a bit more I think I get it.)