Do you see some difference between saying “numbers exist” and “I think/feel that numbers exist”? I sure don’t.
Regarding unicorns, how do your arguments support their non-existence? I’m seeing the opposite. I think with your arguments every idea and concept could be said to exist.
The difference I see between the statements is that they suggest different courses of inquiry. Suppose I start from the naive view of thinking that numbers exist. If I think of this as “numbers exist,” then I’ll start asking question like “where did numbers come from?” and “what’s a good necessary and sufficient definition of numbers?” I think these are bad questions to ask and mostly get you nowhere. In fact, the badness of these questions is a great pragmatic argument for saying that numbers don’t exist.
But if you think of your belief as “I feel like numbers exist,” you might ask things more like “why do I feel like numbers exist?” which I quite like, because, as I am shamelessly copying from Eliezer, this is the sort of question that gets you sensible information whether or not your naive view was correct. And once you understand where your belief comes from, I think you actually end up caring less about whether numbers “exist” or not, because once you know what properties of numbers are important to you, you can let your thoughts dictate the word you choose to use, rather than letting the label dictate your thoughts.
Anyhow, the key thing from this post that doesn’t apply to unicorns is that there’s no experience of having separate things cause our hypotheses and our updates about unicorns. This might help explain why we think it’s obvious that unicorns don’t exist.
If I think of this as “numbers exist,” then I’ll start asking question like “where did numbers come from?”
That’s not an experience I can relate to, but ok.
And once you understand where your belief comes from, I think you actually end up caring less about whether numbers “exist” or not
I see where you’re coming from, however I’m a big believer in the concept that words should mean things. If you find the word “exist” too vague for your purposes, you should propose a more precise definition, or use a different word.
Anyhow, the key thing from this post that doesn’t apply to unicorns is that there’s no experience of having separate things cause our hypotheses and our updates about unicorns.
I’m saying that there is. For now, instead of unicorns, consider god. There is the entire field of theology focused on reasoning about god, creating hypotheses about it and finding them wrong. But hopefully we don’t feel that god exists (or if we do feel it, that’s not thanks to theology). Or consider the Star Wars universe. Likewise there are many fans who reason what belongs to this universe and what does not, and where there is reason, there is a chance to find our hypotheses wrong. The same is true for every idea, it’s only that unicorns are degenerate—the reasoning is too trivial to find yourself wrong. But if we were morons, perhaps we’d find the hypothesis “unicorns have one horn” to be novel and profound.
Fair points. I think that this sort of game-playing might contribute to people feeling like god exists, but it’s definitely a bad reason. But in that case, perhaps we might say that god-the-concept ‘exists’ (concepts and numbers are in pretty much the same boat re: existence) but god-the-being-with-causal-effects doesn’t exist, and people are trying to smuggle properties from one to the other by using the same name for both.
This is sort of a reverse of the ontological argument.
Do you see some difference between saying “numbers exist” and “I think/feel that numbers exist”? I sure don’t.
Regarding unicorns, how do your arguments support their non-existence? I’m seeing the opposite. I think with your arguments every idea and concept could be said to exist.
The difference I see between the statements is that they suggest different courses of inquiry. Suppose I start from the naive view of thinking that numbers exist. If I think of this as “numbers exist,” then I’ll start asking question like “where did numbers come from?” and “what’s a good necessary and sufficient definition of numbers?” I think these are bad questions to ask and mostly get you nowhere. In fact, the badness of these questions is a great pragmatic argument for saying that numbers don’t exist.
But if you think of your belief as “I feel like numbers exist,” you might ask things more like “why do I feel like numbers exist?” which I quite like, because, as I am shamelessly copying from Eliezer, this is the sort of question that gets you sensible information whether or not your naive view was correct. And once you understand where your belief comes from, I think you actually end up caring less about whether numbers “exist” or not, because once you know what properties of numbers are important to you, you can let your thoughts dictate the word you choose to use, rather than letting the label dictate your thoughts.
Anyhow, the key thing from this post that doesn’t apply to unicorns is that there’s no experience of having separate things cause our hypotheses and our updates about unicorns. This might help explain why we think it’s obvious that unicorns don’t exist.
That’s not an experience I can relate to, but ok.
I see where you’re coming from, however I’m a big believer in the concept that words should mean things. If you find the word “exist” too vague for your purposes, you should propose a more precise definition, or use a different word.
I’m saying that there is. For now, instead of unicorns, consider god. There is the entire field of theology focused on reasoning about god, creating hypotheses about it and finding them wrong. But hopefully we don’t feel that god exists (or if we do feel it, that’s not thanks to theology). Or consider the Star Wars universe. Likewise there are many fans who reason what belongs to this universe and what does not, and where there is reason, there is a chance to find our hypotheses wrong. The same is true for every idea, it’s only that unicorns are degenerate—the reasoning is too trivial to find yourself wrong. But if we were morons, perhaps we’d find the hypothesis “unicorns have one horn” to be novel and profound.
Fair points. I think that this sort of game-playing might contribute to people feeling like god exists, but it’s definitely a bad reason. But in that case, perhaps we might say that god-the-concept ‘exists’ (concepts and numbers are in pretty much the same boat re: existence) but god-the-being-with-causal-effects doesn’t exist, and people are trying to smuggle properties from one to the other by using the same name for both.
This is sort of a reverse of the ontological argument.