But is the flinching away intrinsically bad? Or is it also possible to defuse from the flinching in a way that makes it less unpleasant?
I’m confused about what you mean by “intrinsically bad” here, and especially given the relationship of the second question to the first question, suspect that your concept of “intrinsically bad” conflates at least two things. Your second question is much easier to answer: yes, you can defuse from flinching, and yes, that makes it less unpleasant.
Is there a mental motion of turning towards, or welcoming an experience, which is ultimately responsible for seeing pleasurable experiences as good? And if the flinching away is in some way intrinsically bad, is this opposite motion intrinsically good?
Yes, there is a mental motion of welcoming an experience, and you can do it to any experience, not just pleasurable ones; you can even find joy in welcoming any experience, not just pleasurable ones. I am still confused about what you mean by “intrinsically good.”
Now, once you get that pain is not equal to suffering, and you’ve thus managed to eliminate suffering for you personally, what reasons remain to try to change something about what you expect to experience in the future?
Because you want to. (I’m not sure how to explain what I mean by this. For me the internal experience of “I want this” is quite different from the experience of “I am chasing after this in order to escape from pain / suffering,” but the distinction may not be experientially clear for many / most people.)
Then, suppose we somehow managed that all people (or conscious entities) no longer experience the flinching from pain suffering. Would there still be reasons to make the world “better”, or would we be content with things just unfolding however, because as long as we don’t suffer over it, nothing is intrinsically bad?
Yes, lots. I used to flinch away from pain constantly; I do it less now, which means I’m more free to do things that I want to do, like make music and hug people and generally flourish and encourage human flourishing. Also, I increasingly suspect you have some confusion wrapped up in your concept of “intrinsically good / bad.”
Is the kind of suffering that comes from the flinching away from pain maybe the only thing that is bad in a morally relevant way?
Nope.
Once suffering is out of the picture, what kinds of wants, preferences, reasons or values remain, that actually make a difference to how the world is supposed to look?
Uh… all of… the other ones?
Or is the correct conclusion that yes, once nobody suffers anymore, it doesn’t matter if the rest of the world looks really bad?
I’m confused about what you mean by this and what it would mean to answer this question, mostly because I don’t know what you mean by “matter.”
I feel like I may be mixing together some things here that are actually separate.
Yes, I think so too. Can you try paying a lot of attention to what comes up when you think about the concept of “intrinsically good” or “intrinsically bad” (edit: also “suffering” and “mattering”) and just write down literally everything that pops into your head, including words or sentences that sound outrageous or too dramatic or whatever?
I’m confused about what you mean by “intrinsically bad” here, and especially given the relationship of the second question to the first question, suspect that your concept of “intrinsically bad” conflates at least two things. Your second question is much easier to answer: yes, you can defuse from flinching, and yes, that makes it less unpleasant.
Yes, there is a mental motion of welcoming an experience, and you can do it to any experience, not just pleasurable ones; you can even find joy in welcoming any experience, not just pleasurable ones. I am still confused about what you mean by “intrinsically good.”
Because you want to. (I’m not sure how to explain what I mean by this. For me the internal experience of “I want this” is quite different from the experience of “I am chasing after this in order to escape from pain / suffering,” but the distinction may not be experientially clear for many / most people.)
Yes, lots. I used to flinch away from pain constantly; I do it less now, which means I’m more free to do things that I want to do, like make music and hug people and generally flourish and encourage human flourishing. Also, I increasingly suspect you have some confusion wrapped up in your concept of “intrinsically good / bad.”
Nope.
Uh… all of… the other ones?
I’m confused about what you mean by this and what it would mean to answer this question, mostly because I don’t know what you mean by “matter.”
Yes, I think so too. Can you try paying a lot of attention to what comes up when you think about the concept of “intrinsically good” or “intrinsically bad” (edit: also “suffering” and “mattering”) and just write down literally everything that pops into your head, including words or sentences that sound outrageous or too dramatic or whatever?