I would think so. You can’t ask someone if they consent to being hit on. Asking if it’s okay to hit on someone is not very distinguishable from actually hitting on them. And it’s even stupider to ask “please give me your consent to hit on you, and by the way, I’m incompetent at interacting with women”, which is what asking for consent by a green Martian would imply.
You can’t ask someone if they consent to being hit on.
You can. Hitting on someone is not a single action, it’s a process spread out in time. It’s easy (and quite common) to start by “testing the waters” or, as someone said in this thread, waving the tentacles in the general direction. The point is to give the human a chance to signal interest or lack of interest and, if the latter, gracefully withdraw. Of course this doesn’t work by explicitly asking for consent, you have to be at least somewhat clueful in reading signals.
But whatever that process is, there must be a first action, and one cannot ask for consent for that first action, because then asking for consent would come before that first action, and thus it would not be the first action.
Furthermore, the idea that one is giving humans a chance to “signal” consent is rather problematic. Telling Martians that they should give humans the chance to “signal” consent, rather than asking for consent, because asking for consent for rude, and then complaining about Martians not getting clear consent is rather bizarre. Can Martians really blamed for feeling frustrated at the idea that they should prioritize consent, but it’s rude to outright ask for consent? If communication of consent doesn’t occur through explicit statements, but through “signals”, aren’t there going to be Martians who think they’re getting consent when they’re not, and think they’re not when they are? Basically, this system rewards the Martians with the lowest threshold for believing that they have gotten consent.
But whatever that process is, there must be a first action, and one cannot ask for consent for that first action
Correct, but that first action need not be grabbing someone’s face with your tentacles.
Again, tickling/flirting is not a single atomic action. It’s a process which takes time and varies in intensity. It’s fine not to have consent for the first few moves if these moves are harmless.
Can Martians really blamed for feeling frustrated at the idea that they should prioritize consent, but it’s rude to outright ask for consent?
Well, not blamed, but Martians who are feeling frustrated are just not understanding the way this particular kind of social interaction works.
Flirting is the exchange of deliberately ambiguous signals with the twin purposes of evaluating the other party and negotiating next moves. The signals are ambiguous because it is useful for evaluation purposes and because this provides a way to back out if the comfort level turns out to be not high enough.
Some people (more humans than Martians) find flirting deliciously pleasurable. Some people (more Martians than humans) find flirting maddeningly frustrating.
aren’t there going to be Martians who think they’re getting consent when they’re not, and think they’re not when they are?
Yes. So what? Do remember that humans can also be good or bad or incompetent at playing this game.
Basically, this system rewards the Martians with the lowest threshold for believing that they have gotten consent.
No, I don’t think so at all. I think that Martians with “the lowest threshold for believing that they have gotten consent” just get slapped a lot.
Stretching the metaphor: Suppose that many humans respond to having tentacles waved at them (whether or not they touch) by threatening to cut them off.
Suppose that Martians have a response that causes their tentacle-barbs to grow longer and pointier and stingier whenever they perceive a threat to their tentacles.
Under your assumptions being a “regular” Green is an unstable state. Greens will be forced to evolve either into Blues or into superGreens with superstingy extra-long tentacles.
Under your assumptions being a “regular” Green is an unstable state. Greens will be forced to evolve either into Blues or into superGreens with superstingy extra-long tentacles.
This is precisely the actual process that I observe, so there’s +1 for this theory.
The metaphor states that selective pressure strongly favored the tickling impulse. A physiological response that made tickling so much less successful would have been outbred in the ancestral past.
I would think so. You can’t ask someone if they consent to being hit on. Asking if it’s okay to hit on someone is not very distinguishable from actually hitting on them. And it’s even stupider to ask “please give me your consent to hit on you, and by the way, I’m incompetent at interacting with women”, which is what asking for consent by a green Martian would imply.
You can. Hitting on someone is not a single action, it’s a process spread out in time. It’s easy (and quite common) to start by “testing the waters” or, as someone said in this thread, waving the tentacles in the general direction. The point is to give the human a chance to signal interest or lack of interest and, if the latter, gracefully withdraw. Of course this doesn’t work by explicitly asking for consent, you have to be at least somewhat clueful in reading signals.
But whatever that process is, there must be a first action, and one cannot ask for consent for that first action, because then asking for consent would come before that first action, and thus it would not be the first action.
Furthermore, the idea that one is giving humans a chance to “signal” consent is rather problematic. Telling Martians that they should give humans the chance to “signal” consent, rather than asking for consent, because asking for consent for rude, and then complaining about Martians not getting clear consent is rather bizarre. Can Martians really blamed for feeling frustrated at the idea that they should prioritize consent, but it’s rude to outright ask for consent? If communication of consent doesn’t occur through explicit statements, but through “signals”, aren’t there going to be Martians who think they’re getting consent when they’re not, and think they’re not when they are? Basically, this system rewards the Martians with the lowest threshold for believing that they have gotten consent.
Correct, but that first action need not be grabbing someone’s face with your tentacles.
Again, tickling/flirting is not a single atomic action. It’s a process which takes time and varies in intensity. It’s fine not to have consent for the first few moves if these moves are harmless.
Well, not blamed, but Martians who are feeling frustrated are just not understanding the way this particular kind of social interaction works.
Flirting is the exchange of deliberately ambiguous signals with the twin purposes of evaluating the other party and negotiating next moves. The signals are ambiguous because it is useful for evaluation purposes and because this provides a way to back out if the comfort level turns out to be not high enough.
Some people (more humans than Martians) find flirting deliciously pleasurable. Some people (more Martians than humans) find flirting maddeningly frustrating.
Yes. So what? Do remember that humans can also be good or bad or incompetent at playing this game.
No, I don’t think so at all. I think that Martians with “the lowest threshold for believing that they have gotten consent” just get slapped a lot.
Stretching the metaphor: Suppose that many humans respond to having tentacles waved at them (whether or not they touch) by threatening to cut them off.
Suppose that Martians have a response that causes their tentacle-barbs to grow longer and pointier and stingier whenever they perceive a threat to their tentacles.
Where does this process lead?
Under your assumptions being a “regular” Green is an unstable state. Greens will be forced to evolve either into Blues or into superGreens with superstingy extra-long tentacles.
This is precisely the actual process that I observe, so there’s +1 for this theory.
The metaphor states that selective pressure strongly favored the tickling impulse. A physiological response that made tickling so much less successful would have been outbred in the ancestral past.