Secondly, I would say that all ethics occurs in a feedback loop. Personally, I would recommend Buchanan’s short essay “Order Defined in the Process of its Emergence”, which in my opinion applies just as much to ethical choices as it does to economic ones. I don’t think it’s meaningful to ask whether it’s ethical for Martians to tickle humans as an abstract question, any more than it’s meaningful to ask whether it’s ethical for a lion to eat an antelope—or for an antelope to run away. Rather, you need to ask—what is life like for Martians who internalise a value that it’s (not) ethical to tickle humans. What is life like for humans who internalise a value that it’s (not) ethical to be so tickled? What is life like in societies where those values are promulgated? And of course the question of “what is life like” is itself value-laden.
In other words, what is the value of your values?
In my experience, humans are not delicate flowers. They want to be tickled. They are forgiving if a Martian does it wrong and accidentally stings. If a Martian dedicates himself to never stinging a human, humans will never praise him for it, because he will remain Green forever—from a human point of view, the good Martians are the Blue ones. His values bring no value to him, or to anyone else. Instead, he is going to end up gazing at his own navel (or perhaps, antenna) wondering why the humans are so cruel. But he has nothing of value to offer them, and he’s dug that hole for himself.
Stung less than what? What’s the baseline? The ever-Green Martian is going to tell himself that the baseline is if he went around stinging humans, and so expect praise for being so ethical.
But from the human point of view, the baseline is if this Martian never existed—in which case certainly no humans would get stung by him. So he will get no praise.
Yes, I meant less than if the green Martian was more cavalier about tickling humans.
And of course, providing value, and getting recognized for providing value, are two completely different things. Each can and do happen without the other happening.
In my experience, humans are not delicate flowers. They want to be tickled.
Are you covertly bragging about being a blue martian, or do you genuinely lack experience with the really green martians? By “green martians” the OP probably means the bright green ones, not the teal ones you’re probably thinking of.
EDIT: Retracted by accident, but if you want to upvote or downvote you can do so on this comment instead.
Humans want to be tickled by Blues but realize that signaling openness to tickling might get them some Greens as well. Most socially capable humans understand that, are usually willing to pay the price of experiencing some Greens on their way to the Blues, and have developed (more or less effective) techniques of discarding Greens as soon as detected.
Firstly, I like your analogy.
Secondly, I would say that all ethics occurs in a feedback loop. Personally, I would recommend Buchanan’s short essay “Order Defined in the Process of its Emergence”, which in my opinion applies just as much to ethical choices as it does to economic ones. I don’t think it’s meaningful to ask whether it’s ethical for Martians to tickle humans as an abstract question, any more than it’s meaningful to ask whether it’s ethical for a lion to eat an antelope—or for an antelope to run away. Rather, you need to ask—what is life like for Martians who internalise a value that it’s (not) ethical to tickle humans. What is life like for humans who internalise a value that it’s (not) ethical to be so tickled? What is life like in societies where those values are promulgated? And of course the question of “what is life like” is itself value-laden.
In other words, what is the value of your values?
In my experience, humans are not delicate flowers. They want to be tickled. They are forgiving if a Martian does it wrong and accidentally stings. If a Martian dedicates himself to never stinging a human, humans will never praise him for it, because he will remain Green forever—from a human point of view, the good Martians are the Blue ones. His values bring no value to him, or to anyone else. Instead, he is going to end up gazing at his own navel (or perhaps, antenna) wondering why the humans are so cruel. But he has nothing of value to offer them, and he’s dug that hole for himself.
Well, not quite. The humans really are being stung less.
Stung less than what? What’s the baseline? The ever-Green Martian is going to tell himself that the baseline is if he went around stinging humans, and so expect praise for being so ethical.
But from the human point of view, the baseline is if this Martian never existed—in which case certainly no humans would get stung by him. So he will get no praise.
Yes, I meant less than if the green Martian was more cavalier about tickling humans.
And of course, providing value, and getting recognized for providing value, are two completely different things. Each can and do happen without the other happening.
Are you covertly bragging about being a blue martian, or do you genuinely lack experience with the really green martians? By “green martians” the OP probably means the bright green ones, not the teal ones you’re probably thinking of.
EDIT: Retracted by accident, but if you want to upvote or downvote you can do so on this comment instead.
Humans want to be tickled by Blues but realize that signaling openness to tickling might get them some Greens as well. Most socially capable humans understand that, are usually willing to pay the price of experiencing some Greens on their way to the Blues, and have developed (more or less effective) techniques of discarding Greens as soon as detected.
I retracted the parent by accident; if you were going to upvote or downvote it, upvote or downvote this comment instead.