I disagree that we’re confusing multiple issues; my central point is that these things are deeply related.
This is what I’m talking about. It’s ok to say that these issues are related to each other, but it’ll remain useful to retain the ability to discuss and evaluate individual components. Otherwise:
A: “It’s ok to offer victims advice on how to reduce their risk.”
B: “No because the advice gets packaged with doubt over whether the victim really is a victim.”
A: “Ok but I’m not saying we should doubt victim’s stories, I’m only talking about advice on how to reduce risk.”
B: “But the advice tends to be given at inappropriate times and with what appears to be insufficient compassion”
A: “Yes that would be a problem, but again I’m not suggesting that people give advice inappropriately. I would hope that when I advocate for something, folks can presume there’s an implied ‘appropriately’ qualifier in there.”
B: “Well most of the advice people give is straight up wrong.”
A: “I just said...”
And so on. I’m not saying that the concerns you raise are invalid! But stuffing everything into the same discourse gets confusing very quickly. My post was strictly about “giving advice to victims” and the pushback you’re giving invokes all these collateral issues I never argued in favor of.
Maybe it turns out it’s impossible to disaggregate “giving advice” from all the other phenomena you’re describing, or maybe it’s impossible to give advice with appropriate timing and grace. Those are important discussions to have but nevertheless it helps to first imagine the least convenient possible world and to keep issues discrete, otherwise it all gets mixed into a murky soup.
A: “It’s ok to offer victims advice on how to reduce their risk.”
B: “This statement is universal, but in general it’s wrong to give victims advice (as just receiving this advice is hurtful), so this is a wrong statement to make.”
B: “But the advice tends to be given at inappropriate times and with what appears to be insufficient compassion”
I read the root comment as the statement “it is almost universally inappropriate to give victims advice” because of [all these interconnected societal things].
This is what I’m talking about. It’s ok to say that these issues are related to each other, but it’ll remain useful to retain the ability to discuss and evaluate individual components. Otherwise:
A: “It’s ok to offer victims advice on how to reduce their risk.”
B: “No because the advice gets packaged with doubt over whether the victim really is a victim.”
A: “Ok but I’m not saying we should doubt victim’s stories, I’m only talking about advice on how to reduce risk.”
B: “But the advice tends to be given at inappropriate times and with what appears to be insufficient compassion”
A: “Yes that would be a problem, but again I’m not suggesting that people give advice inappropriately. I would hope that when I advocate for something, folks can presume there’s an implied ‘appropriately’ qualifier in there.”
B: “Well most of the advice people give is straight up wrong.”
A: “I just said...”
And so on. I’m not saying that the concerns you raise are invalid! But stuffing everything into the same discourse gets confusing very quickly. My post was strictly about “giving advice to victims” and the pushback you’re giving invokes all these collateral issues I never argued in favor of.
Maybe it turns out it’s impossible to disaggregate “giving advice” from all the other phenomena you’re describing, or maybe it’s impossible to give advice with appropriate timing and grace. Those are important discussions to have but nevertheless it helps to first imagine the least convenient possible world and to keep issues discrete, otherwise it all gets mixed into a murky soup.
I read the reasoning more as:
A: “It’s ok to offer victims advice on how to reduce their risk.”
B: “This statement is universal, but in general it’s wrong to give victims advice (as just receiving this advice is hurtful), so this is a wrong statement to make.”
I read the root comment as the statement “it is almost universally inappropriate to give victims advice” because of [all these interconnected societal things].