I don’t think the clever arguer or hostile arguer is a gigantically useful label. In my own case, many of my arguments probably sound like hostile or clever arguer to my counterparty. This is because I start out in most discussions with a previously thought out belief. I can be swayed from my position, and have been often enough.
Many religious people have rehearsed theological arguments. I don’t think this means that they are hostile or clever. They are sincere, they are telling you what they believe. My cousin the Jehovah’s witness argues with me rarely, but clearly trots out well-tested arguments when she does argue with me. The most engrossing one I heard recently was that the bible is the only book with no errors of fact in it, on facts we can check, and that is why we should believe its claims to things we can’t check. My own argument against religion is more probabilistic than deductive. I essentially like the stories that rationalists come up with when examining physical evidence, and like all the feeling of power I get when I do engineering based on that knowledge and can make amazing things happen. My counterparties are more concerned about going to heaven or not going to hell, and so they bet on the Book. I don’t even bother trying to debunk the claim that the bible has no errors. It wouldn’t change my opinions even if this was true! I would still prefer the stories of a 4 billion year old earth and an explanation of evolution as to why we share 96% of our genes with Chimpanzees. And a 14 billion year old expanding universe is also much more appealing to me than a 7000 year old universe with stars in the sky and dinosaur bones in the ground just put there to screw with our evil rationalist brains.
I accept that as a PhD physicist and working engineer that I have a bias towards rationalism, than I would if my main concern was getting laid and saving my soul. That probably helps me respect the religious more than the average atheist does, their own response to Pascal’s mugging is different than mine, but we have still both been mugged.
I don’t think the clever arguer or hostile arguer is a gigantically useful label. In my own case, many of my arguments probably sound like hostile or clever arguer to my counterparty. This is because I start out in most discussions with a previously thought out belief. I can be swayed from my position, and have been often enough.
Many religious people have rehearsed theological arguments. I don’t think this means that they are hostile or clever. They are sincere, they are telling you what they believe. My cousin the Jehovah’s witness argues with me rarely, but clearly trots out well-tested arguments when she does argue with me. The most engrossing one I heard recently was that the bible is the only book with no errors of fact in it, on facts we can check, and that is why we should believe its claims to things we can’t check. My own argument against religion is more probabilistic than deductive. I essentially like the stories that rationalists come up with when examining physical evidence, and like all the feeling of power I get when I do engineering based on that knowledge and can make amazing things happen. My counterparties are more concerned about going to heaven or not going to hell, and so they bet on the Book. I don’t even bother trying to debunk the claim that the bible has no errors. It wouldn’t change my opinions even if this was true! I would still prefer the stories of a 4 billion year old earth and an explanation of evolution as to why we share 96% of our genes with Chimpanzees. And a 14 billion year old expanding universe is also much more appealing to me than a 7000 year old universe with stars in the sky and dinosaur bones in the ground just put there to screw with our evil rationalist brains.
I accept that as a PhD physicist and working engineer that I have a bias towards rationalism, than I would if my main concern was getting laid and saving my soul. That probably helps me respect the religious more than the average atheist does, their own response to Pascal’s mugging is different than mine, but we have still both been mugged.