This is the impression I’ve gotten as a beginner to lifting.
My current problem is “how can I learn to do SS safely and cheaply?” My university has an appropriately equipped gym, but I can’t really afford coaching.
No need. Lifting weights is not rocket science. Even if it were, you’re smart, right? I’m sure your gym has a squat rack & mirrors—that’s all you really need.
Sure. I feel pretty comfortable with squats and benching already. I’m just a bit concerned about learning, say, powercleans without guidance, and going up on weight on them without assurance that I am, in fact, throwing the huge metal object into the air correctly.
There are numerous serious lifting forums on the web that will critique your beginner cleans (for free) out of the goodness their hearts. You just need to film it and upload the video. So do this with lighter weights and see what people say., make the adjustments and ask again. Also, definitely start with cleans—they are a lot safer than snatches and much easier to master.
Happen to know any that also lack pullups? I can’t do one, and likely won’t be able to for a while (I am female). All the powerclean-free ones I’ve seen replace them with pullups.
On pullups—you can replace them with pull-up negatives. Jump up to the chin-above-bar position and lower yourself as slowly as you can, particularly towards the end of the movement. Let go of the bar and jump again. About the only thing this doesn’t train, that the regular pullup will, is the starting-from-a-dead-hang motion.
(This has the added benefit of eventually being able to do pullups.)
I also advise that between jumping pullups, you return to a faux-deadhang position (even if this requires you to bend your knees to fit under the bar). Again, you will get tired of jumping pretty quickly and then will start to rely on your arms and back.
I recommend working up to pullups by using the cable pull-down machine and programming it as 3x5 the same way you do for the main lifts. People typically program pullups for reps because of the inconvenience of adding weight, but it’s fundamentally the same as any other movement in terms of the expected effect at different rep ranges. On the cable machine you are limited to lifting at most your own body weight conveniently, but by the time you can do 3x5 at a weight near your body weight you should be able to perform at least one pullup. Also, you should know that at most gyms it’s possible to add 5 lb plates to the machine by threading the attachment thing through the plate or by using supplemental plates that you can add to the top of the weight stack, if your gym has them. The cable pull-down is reputed to be slightly easier but I find the difficulty comparable as long as you focus on keeping your torso vertical and pretending you are lifting up to the bar rather than lifting the bar down to your neck (kind of silly but it works). Most people tend to lean back slightly which makes it a little easier and a little less like a pullup.
I program my chinups and pullups this way and I can do them weighted with 62.5lb and 52.5lb respectively, starting from only being able to do 1 or 2 at bodyweight. Also I have a powerlifting total >1100lb from Starting Strength then Wendler’s 5/3/1 over the last two years, and highly recommend that track.
I was looking up the Marines’ fitness requirements at some point randomly, and for females the pull-up requirement is apparently replaced with a flexed-arm hang (wikiabout.com), so you could maybe try doing that.
Flexed-arm hang won’t work as a replacement for pull-ups in the context of this particular program; maintaining a load in a static position is very different from moving that load up and down.
As a former Marine, in addition to the difference pointed out by jsteinhardt, the flexed arm hang works your arms only, not your back. Pullups require an overhand grip, whereas the flexed arm hang (and chinup) focus on your biceps.
based on olympic lifting technique from the 60′s when the rules were different.
Interesting; that’s a different reason than the one that guy cited. He claimed that a better source for learning powercleans is actually an older one from the ’70′s by Bill Starr. He seems to think, and I get the impression, that Rippetoe’s changes are actually newer, instead of a reversion to an older standard.
Could you elaborate on the differences between what he teaches and… what one should do instead?
The concept of a vertical pull originates from technique when brushing the thigh with the barbell was disqualifying of the lift. This lead to lifters keeping the bar further away from the body, and subsequently for rippetoe to teach the first pull as extremely similar to a deadlift. In contrast, modern technique shows a very distinct S shaped bar path on ascent. Rippetoe is disagreeing with every world record holder in the olympic lifts here, and notably has not trained anyone near close to competitive at even a national level.
In contrast, Glenn Pendlay (who has trained the number 1 nationally ranked lifters in several weight divisions) and every other olympic coach teaches them very differently. Clean pulls are NOT deadlift pulls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEyoH5FV03s
As someone who has been in this situation, pullup negatives have worked for me. I would also add regular jumping pullups, without the negatives. As you do more, your jumping abilities will decrease and youll start to rely more on your arms/back, thus building those muscles. Most gyms also have an assisted pullup machine.
This is the impression I’ve gotten as a beginner to lifting.
My current problem is “how can I learn to do SS safely and cheaply?” My university has an appropriately equipped gym, but I can’t really afford coaching.
No need. Lifting weights is not rocket science. Even if it were, you’re smart, right? I’m sure your gym has a squat rack & mirrors—that’s all you really need.
Sure. I feel pretty comfortable with squats and benching already. I’m just a bit concerned about learning, say, powercleans without guidance, and going up on weight on them without assurance that I am, in fact, throwing the huge metal object into the air correctly.
There are numerous serious lifting forums on the web that will critique your beginner cleans (for free) out of the goodness their hearts. You just need to film it and upload the video. So do this with lighter weights and see what people say., make the adjustments and ask again. Also, definitely start with cleans—they are a lot safer than snatches and much easier to master.
Oh, that makes much more sense. Actually there are various versions of SS that swap out powercleans for technically easier exercises.
Happen to know any that also lack pullups? I can’t do one, and likely won’t be able to for a while (I am female). All the powerclean-free ones I’ve seen replace them with pullups.
(Also, I just found this on Google and am somewhat disturbed. Rippetoe claims you can learn to power clean without a coach, while this guy claims that Rippetoe doesn’t even teach power cleans correctly: http://www.manlycurls.com/2012/02/starting-strength-truth-rippetoe-opinion-fitness/)
On pullups—you can replace them with pull-up negatives. Jump up to the chin-above-bar position and lower yourself as slowly as you can, particularly towards the end of the movement. Let go of the bar and jump again. About the only thing this doesn’t train, that the regular pullup will, is the starting-from-a-dead-hang motion.
(This has the added benefit of eventually being able to do pullups.)
I also advise that between jumping pullups, you return to a faux-deadhang position (even if this requires you to bend your knees to fit under the bar). Again, you will get tired of jumping pretty quickly and then will start to rely on your arms and back.
I recommend working up to pullups by using the cable pull-down machine and programming it as 3x5 the same way you do for the main lifts. People typically program pullups for reps because of the inconvenience of adding weight, but it’s fundamentally the same as any other movement in terms of the expected effect at different rep ranges. On the cable machine you are limited to lifting at most your own body weight conveniently, but by the time you can do 3x5 at a weight near your body weight you should be able to perform at least one pullup. Also, you should know that at most gyms it’s possible to add 5 lb plates to the machine by threading the attachment thing through the plate or by using supplemental plates that you can add to the top of the weight stack, if your gym has them. The cable pull-down is reputed to be slightly easier but I find the difficulty comparable as long as you focus on keeping your torso vertical and pretending you are lifting up to the bar rather than lifting the bar down to your neck (kind of silly but it works). Most people tend to lean back slightly which makes it a little easier and a little less like a pullup.
I program my chinups and pullups this way and I can do them weighted with 62.5lb and 52.5lb respectively, starting from only being able to do 1 or 2 at bodyweight. Also I have a powerlifting total >1100lb from Starting Strength then Wendler’s 5/3/1 over the last two years, and highly recommend that track.
I was looking up the Marines’ fitness requirements at some point randomly, and for females the pull-up requirement is apparently replaced with a flexed-arm hang (wiki about.com), so you could maybe try doing that.
Flexed-arm hang won’t work as a replacement for pull-ups in the context of this particular program; maintaining a load in a static position is very different from moving that load up and down.
As a former Marine, in addition to the difference pointed out by jsteinhardt, the flexed arm hang works your arms only, not your back. Pullups require an overhand grip, whereas the flexed arm hang (and chinup) focus on your biceps.
That is correct, Rippetoe teaches the powerclean based on olympic lifting technique from the 60′s when the rules were different.
Do barbell rows instead of cleans. This won’t cause any problems.
Interesting; that’s a different reason than the one that guy cited. He claimed that a better source for learning powercleans is actually an older one from the ’70′s by Bill Starr. He seems to think, and I get the impression, that Rippetoe’s changes are actually newer, instead of a reversion to an older standard.
Could you elaborate on the differences between what he teaches and… what one should do instead?
The concept of a vertical pull originates from technique when brushing the thigh with the barbell was disqualifying of the lift. This lead to lifters keeping the bar further away from the body, and subsequently for rippetoe to teach the first pull as extremely similar to a deadlift. In contrast, modern technique shows a very distinct S shaped bar path on ascent. Rippetoe is disagreeing with every world record holder in the olympic lifts here, and notably has not trained anyone near close to competitive at even a national level. In contrast, Glenn Pendlay (who has trained the number 1 nationally ranked lifters in several weight divisions) and every other olympic coach teaches them very differently. Clean pulls are NOT deadlift pulls. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEyoH5FV03s
As someone who has been in this situation, pullup negatives have worked for me. I would also add regular jumping pullups, without the negatives. As you do more, your jumping abilities will decrease and youll start to rely more on your arms/back, thus building those muscles. Most gyms also have an assisted pullup machine.