My problem with this is that Mr. Yudkoswky (of 2006)’s examples (at least Gandhi and Gandalf, the ones I’m familiar with) were not disinterested and impartisan.
(The problem of the disinterested “Wise Man” in general, apart from the inapplicability of these examples, I have no quarrel with, and the problem is interesting. Though I can’t come up with any examples of such a man, offhand. Hasn’t wisdom always gone hand-in-hand with knowing The Right, and thus not being impartial?
The Buddha was not impartial about attachment and nirvana, and he’s as close as I can think of. Socrates, Diogenes, all the Greek wise men—not impartial. Are there actually any examples of this stereotype? It’s an interesting question because I have the stereotype just as much as Eliezer does, but I can’t think of any actual examples of it.)
Gandhi would never have even appeared to consent to the idea that the goal of Indian self-rule and continued colonial status were goals he “could not judge between”; he was openly and irrevocably in favor of the former and opposed to the latter as inherently injust. The Gandhi of the Salt March was a partisan, quite openly and simply.
Likewise, Gandalf had a specific goal—the defeat of Sauron. He might refuse to judge between two things unrelated to that goal (or he might not), but on that subject he had definite and expressed opinions, that were not only that, but not open to change. For instance, refusing to take the Ring when it was offered, and his insistence that its destruction was the only possible strategy.
There was no pretense that acquiescence to the Witch-King’s power was acceptable, or that rule there “was no long-term problem” (Sauron) or “no aggrieved” (the entirety of Middle Earth) - this applies equally to Gandhi, in the real world.
My problem with this is that Mr. Yudkoswky (of 2006)’s examples (at least Gandhi and Gandalf, the ones I’m familiar with) were not disinterested and impartisan.
(The problem of the disinterested “Wise Man” in general, apart from the inapplicability of these examples, I have no quarrel with, and the problem is interesting. Though I can’t come up with any examples of such a man, offhand. Hasn’t wisdom always gone hand-in-hand with knowing The Right, and thus not being impartial?
The Buddha was not impartial about attachment and nirvana, and he’s as close as I can think of. Socrates, Diogenes, all the Greek wise men—not impartial. Are there actually any examples of this stereotype? It’s an interesting question because I have the stereotype just as much as Eliezer does, but I can’t think of any actual examples of it.)
Gandhi would never have even appeared to consent to the idea that the goal of Indian self-rule and continued colonial status were goals he “could not judge between”; he was openly and irrevocably in favor of the former and opposed to the latter as inherently injust. The Gandhi of the Salt March was a partisan, quite openly and simply.
Likewise, Gandalf had a specific goal—the defeat of Sauron. He might refuse to judge between two things unrelated to that goal (or he might not), but on that subject he had definite and expressed opinions, that were not only that, but not open to change. For instance, refusing to take the Ring when it was offered, and his insistence that its destruction was the only possible strategy.
There was no pretense that acquiescence to the Witch-King’s power was acceptable, or that rule there “was no long-term problem” (Sauron) or “no aggrieved” (the entirety of Middle Earth) - this applies equally to Gandhi, in the real world.