This does give me pause, though: LW deals politely with intelligent criticism, but it rarely internalizes it.
To the best of my recollection none of the major points of the Sequences have been repudiated,
I think that you’ve got a bigger problem than internalizing repudiations. The demand for repudiations is the mistake Critical Rationalists make—“show me where I’m wrong” is not a sufficiently open mind.
First, the problem might be that you’re not even wrong. You can’t refute something that’s not even wrong. When someone is not even wrong, he has to be willing to justify his ideas, or you can’t make progress. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him think.
(As an aside, is there an article about Not Even Wrong here? I don’t remember one, and it is an important idea to which a lot are probably already familiar. Goes well with the list name, too.)
Second, if one is only open to repudiations, one is not open to fundamentally different conceptualizations on the issue. The mapping from one conceptualization to another can be a tedious and unproductive exercise, if even possible in practical terms.
A few seem to have slipped out of the de-facto canon—the metaethics sequence comes to mind
I’ve spent years on a mailing list about Stirner—likely The mailing list on Stirner. In my opinion, Stirner has the best take on metaethics, and even if you don’t agree, there are a number of issues he brings up better than others. A lot of smart folks on that list, and we made some limited original progress.
Stirner is near the top of the list for things I know better than others. People who would know better, are likely people I already know in a limited fashion. I thought to write an article from that perspective, contrasting that with points in the Metaethics sequence. But I don’t think the argument in the Metaethics sequence really follows, and contemplating an exegesis of it to “repudiate” it fills me with a vast ennui. So, it’s Bah Humbug, and I don’t contribute.
Whatever you might think of me, setting up impediments to people sharing what they know best is probably not in the interest of the list. There’s enough natural impediment to posting an article in a group; always easier to snipe at others than put your own ideas up for target practice. There’s risk in that. And given the prevalence of akrasia here, do we need additional impediments?
What can we do about this?
One thing that I think would be helpful to all concerned is a weighted rating of the sequence articles, weighted by some function of karma, perhaps. If some sequences have fallen out of canon, or never were in canon, it would be nice to know. Just how much support any particular article has would be useful information.
As an aside, is there an article about Not Even Wrong here? I don’t remember one, and it is an important idea to which a lot are probably already familiar. Goes well with the list name, too.
As to your broader point, I agree that “show me where I’m wrong” is suboptimal with regard to establishing a genuinely open system of ideas. It’s also a good first step, though, and so I’d view a failure to internalize repudiation as a red flag of the same species as what you seem to be pointing to—a bigger one, in fact. Not sufficient, but necessary.
Certainly if you have been repudiated, but fail to internalize the repudiation, you’ve got a big red flag. But that’s why I think’s it less dangerous and debilitating—it’s clear, obvious, and visible.
I consider only listening to repudiations as the bigger problem: it is being willfully deaf and non responsive to potential improvement. It’s not failing to understand, it’s refusing to listen.
I consider only listening to repudiations as the bigger problem
In that case, Lukeprog’s metaethics sequence must have been of great comfort to you, since he didn’t really spend much time on Eliezer’s metaethics sequence. Perhaps you could just start covering Stimer’s material in a discussion post or two and see what happens.
I think that you’ve got a bigger problem than internalizing repudiations. The demand for repudiations is the mistake Critical Rationalists make—“show me where I’m wrong” is not a sufficiently open mind.
First, the problem might be that you’re not even wrong. You can’t refute something that’s not even wrong. When someone is not even wrong, he has to be willing to justify his ideas, or you can’t make progress. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him think.
(As an aside, is there an article about Not Even Wrong here? I don’t remember one, and it is an important idea to which a lot are probably already familiar. Goes well with the list name, too.)
Second, if one is only open to repudiations, one is not open to fundamentally different conceptualizations on the issue. The mapping from one conceptualization to another can be a tedious and unproductive exercise, if even possible in practical terms.
I’ve spent years on a mailing list about Stirner—likely The mailing list on Stirner. In my opinion, Stirner has the best take on metaethics, and even if you don’t agree, there are a number of issues he brings up better than others. A lot of smart folks on that list, and we made some limited original progress.
Stirner is near the top of the list for things I know better than others. People who would know better, are likely people I already know in a limited fashion. I thought to write an article from that perspective, contrasting that with points in the Metaethics sequence. But I don’t think the argument in the Metaethics sequence really follows, and contemplating an exegesis of it to “repudiate” it fills me with a vast ennui. So, it’s Bah Humbug, and I don’t contribute.
Whatever you might think of me, setting up impediments to people sharing what they know best is probably not in the interest of the list. There’s enough natural impediment to posting an article in a group; always easier to snipe at others than put your own ideas up for target practice. There’s risk in that. And given the prevalence of akrasia here, do we need additional impediments?
One thing that I think would be helpful to all concerned is a weighted rating of the sequence articles, weighted by some function of karma, perhaps. If some sequences have fallen out of canon, or never were in canon, it would be nice to know. Just how much support any particular article has would be useful information.
Not that I know of, although it’s referenced all over the place—like Paul Graham’s paper on identity, it seems to be an external part of the LW canon. The Wikipedia page on “Not Even Wrong” does appear in XiXiDu’s list of external resources—a post that’s faded into undeserved obscurity, I think.
As to your broader point, I agree that “show me where I’m wrong” is suboptimal with regard to establishing a genuinely open system of ideas. It’s also a good first step, though, and so I’d view a failure to internalize repudiation as a red flag of the same species as what you seem to be pointing to—a bigger one, in fact. Not sufficient, but necessary.
Certainly if you have been repudiated, but fail to internalize the repudiation, you’ve got a big red flag. But that’s why I think’s it less dangerous and debilitating—it’s clear, obvious, and visible.
I consider only listening to repudiations as the bigger problem: it is being willfully deaf and non responsive to potential improvement. It’s not failing to understand, it’s refusing to listen.
In that case, Lukeprog’s metaethics sequence must have been of great comfort to you, since he didn’t really spend much time on Eliezer’s metaethics sequence. Perhaps you could just start covering Stimer’s material in a discussion post or two and see what happens.