There are two debates here: (1) Who is blameworthy? (2) What actions should people take going forward? The OP was discussing both, and you seem to be mostly focused on (1). Do you agree with that characterization?
I think the OP’s advice on (2) was good. Being rude is counterproductive if you’re trying to win someone over. It’s a bit more complicated than that, because sometimes you’re trying to win over the person you’re talking to, and sometimes you’re instead trying to win over other people in the audience. But still, I think I see more people erring on the side of “too rude” on both sides, at the expense of accomplishing their own goals. I’m not perfect myself but I do try, and I encourage people to DM me if I’m falling short. For example this post is much less hostile than the previous draft version, and much much much less hostile than the first draft version. It’s still a bit hostile I guess, but that’s the best I could do without failing to communicate things that I felt were very important to communicate. I don’t know if that’s a great example. I’m open to feedback. Note that I would have published the more-hostile versions if not for other people reading the drafts and offering feedback. (I was alarmed by that near-miss and have a plan to be better going forward—I have a personal pre-blog-post-publication checklist and added several items to the effect of “check if I’m being snarky or hostile”.)
I haven’t read the supposed 2015-2020 discussions for the most part, so no comment on (1). I guess I’m much more open-minded to adding blame to other parties than to removing blame from LeCun—I think that’s what you’re saying too. I’m not sure (1) is a really useful thing to argue about anyway though. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
There are two debates here: (1) Who is blameworthy? (2) What actions should people take going forward? The OP was discussing both, and you seem to be mostly focused on (1). Do you agree with that characterization?
I think the OP’s advice on (2) was good. Being rude is counterproductive if you’re trying to win someone over. It’s a bit more complicated than that, because sometimes you’re trying to win over the person you’re talking to, and sometimes you’re instead trying to win over other people in the audience. But still, I think I see more people erring on the side of “too rude” on both sides, at the expense of accomplishing their own goals. I’m not perfect myself but I do try, and I encourage people to DM me if I’m falling short. For example this post is much less hostile than the previous draft version, and much much much less hostile than the first draft version. It’s still a bit hostile I guess, but that’s the best I could do without failing to communicate things that I felt were very important to communicate. I don’t know if that’s a great example. I’m open to feedback. Note that I would have published the more-hostile versions if not for other people reading the drafts and offering feedback. (I was alarmed by that near-miss and have a plan to be better going forward—I have a personal pre-blog-post-publication checklist and added several items to the effect of “check if I’m being snarky or hostile”.)
I haven’t read the supposed 2015-2020 discussions for the most part, so no comment on (1). I guess I’m much more open-minded to adding blame to other parties than to removing blame from LeCun—I think that’s what you’re saying too. I’m not sure (1) is a really useful thing to argue about anyway though. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯