I honestly lost track of what you and wedrifid were arguing about way back when. It had something to do with whether “fictional” was a useful response to someone asking about how to categorize characters like the Joker when it comes to the specifics of their psychological quirks, IIRC, although I may be mistaking the salient disagreement for some other earlier disagreement (or perhaps a later one).
Somewhere along the line I got the impression that you believe wedrifid’s behavior drags down the general quality of discourse on the site (either on net, or relative to some level of positive contribution you think he would be capable of if he changed his behavior, I’m not sure which) by placing an undue emphasis on describing on-site social patterns in game-theoretical terms. I agree that wedrifid consistently does this but I don’t consider it a negative thing, personally.
[EDIT: To clarify, I agree that wedrifid consistently describes on-site social patterns in game-theoretical terms; I don’t agree with “undue emphasis”]
I do think he’s more abrupt and sometimes rude (in conventional social terms) in his treatment of some folks on this site than I’d prefer, and that a little more consistent kindness would make me more comfortable. Then again, I think the same thing of a lot of people, including most noticeably Eliezer; if the concern is that he’s acting as some kind of poor role model in so doing, I think that ship sailed with or without wedrifid.
I’m less clear on what wedrifid’s objection to your behavior is, exactly, or how he thinks it damages the site. I do think that Vaniver’s characterization of what his objection is is more accurate than your earlier one was.
[EDIT: Reading this comment, it seems one of the things he objects to is you opposing his opposition to engaging with Dmitry. For my own part, I think engaging with Dmitry was a net negative for the site. Whether opposing opposition to Dmitry is also a net negative, I don’t really know, but it’s certainly plausible.]
I realize this isn’t really an answer to your question, but it’s the mental model I’ve got, and since you seem rather insistent on getting some sort of input on this I figured I’d give you what I have. Feel free to ask followup questions if you like. (Or not.)
Then again, I think the same thing of a lot of people, including most noticeably Eliezer; if the concern is that he’s acting as some kind of poor role model in so doing, I think that ship sailed with or without wedrifid.
The difference between Eliezer and wedrifid is that wedrifid endorses his behavior much more strongly and frequently. With Eliezer, one might think it’s just a personality quirk, or an irrational behavioral tendency that’s an unfortunate side effect of having high status, and hence not worthy of imitation.
I do think that Vaniver’s characterization of what his objection is is more accurate than your earlier one was.
I didn’t mean to sound very confident (if I did) about my guess of his objection. My first guess was that he and I had a disagreement over how LW currently works, but then he said “I disagree with Wei Dai on all points in the parent” which made me update towards this alternative explanation, which he has also denied, so now I guess the reason is a disagreement over how LW works, but not the one that I specifically gave. (In case someone is wondering why I keep guessing instead of asking, it’s because I already asked and wedrifid didn’t want to answer, even privately.)
Feel free to ask followup questions if you like.
Thanks! What I’m most anxious to know at this point is whether I have some sort of misconception about the social dynamics on LW that causes me to consistently act in ways that are harmful to LW. Do you have any thoughts on that?
The difference between Eliezer and wedrifid is that wedrifid endorses his behavior much more strongly and frequently.
I certainly agree with you about frequently. I have to think more about strongly, but off hand I’m inclined to disagree. I would agree that wedrifid does it more explicitly, but that isn’t the same thing at all.
whether I have some sort of misconception about the social dynamics on LW that causes me to consistently act in ways that are harmful to LW. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Haven’t a clue. I’m not really sure what “harmful to LW” even means.
Perhaps unpacking that phrase is a place to start. What do you think harms the site? What do you think benefits it?
(sigh) OK, my two cents.
I honestly lost track of what you and wedrifid were arguing about way back when. It had something to do with whether “fictional” was a useful response to someone asking about how to categorize characters like the Joker when it comes to the specifics of their psychological quirks, IIRC, although I may be mistaking the salient disagreement for some other earlier disagreement (or perhaps a later one).
Somewhere along the line I got the impression that you believe wedrifid’s behavior drags down the general quality of discourse on the site (either on net, or relative to some level of positive contribution you think he would be capable of if he changed his behavior, I’m not sure which) by placing an undue emphasis on describing on-site social patterns in game-theoretical terms. I agree that wedrifid consistently does this but I don’t consider it a negative thing, personally.
[EDIT: To clarify, I agree that wedrifid consistently describes on-site social patterns in game-theoretical terms; I don’t agree with “undue emphasis”]
I do think he’s more abrupt and sometimes rude (in conventional social terms) in his treatment of some folks on this site than I’d prefer, and that a little more consistent kindness would make me more comfortable. Then again, I think the same thing of a lot of people, including most noticeably Eliezer; if the concern is that he’s acting as some kind of poor role model in so doing, I think that ship sailed with or without wedrifid.
I’m less clear on what wedrifid’s objection to your behavior is, exactly, or how he thinks it damages the site. I do think that Vaniver’s characterization of what his objection is is more accurate than your earlier one was.
[EDIT: Reading this comment, it seems one of the things he objects to is you opposing his opposition to engaging with Dmitry. For my own part, I think engaging with Dmitry was a net negative for the site. Whether opposing opposition to Dmitry is also a net negative, I don’t really know, but it’s certainly plausible.]
I realize this isn’t really an answer to your question, but it’s the mental model I’ve got, and since you seem rather insistent on getting some sort of input on this I figured I’d give you what I have. Feel free to ask followup questions if you like. (Or not.)
The difference between Eliezer and wedrifid is that wedrifid endorses his behavior much more strongly and frequently. With Eliezer, one might think it’s just a personality quirk, or an irrational behavioral tendency that’s an unfortunate side effect of having high status, and hence not worthy of imitation.
I didn’t mean to sound very confident (if I did) about my guess of his objection. My first guess was that he and I had a disagreement over how LW currently works, but then he said “I disagree with Wei Dai on all points in the parent” which made me update towards this alternative explanation, which he has also denied, so now I guess the reason is a disagreement over how LW works, but not the one that I specifically gave. (In case someone is wondering why I keep guessing instead of asking, it’s because I already asked and wedrifid didn’t want to answer, even privately.)
Thanks! What I’m most anxious to know at this point is whether I have some sort of misconception about the social dynamics on LW that causes me to consistently act in ways that are harmful to LW. Do you have any thoughts on that?
I certainly agree with you about frequently. I have to think more about strongly, but off hand I’m inclined to disagree. I would agree that wedrifid does it more explicitly, but that isn’t the same thing at all.
Haven’t a clue. I’m not really sure what “harmful to LW” even means.
Perhaps unpacking that phrase is a place to start. What do you think harms the site? What do you think benefits it?