I agree with your implicature and wonder whether we have correctly resolved the ambiguity in ‘nonsense’. It seems it could either mean “It is not the case that this would raise his chance of getting laid” or “It is not the case that chance of getting laid is sufficiently correlated with social status as to be at all relevant as a measure thereof”. I honestly don’t know which one is the most charitable reading because I consider them approximately equally as wrong.
As an aside, my motive for throwing in ‘chance of getting laid’ was that often ‘status’ is considered too ephemeral or abstract and I wanted to put things in terms that are clearly falsifiable. It also helps distinguish between different kinds of status and the different overlapping social hierarchies. The action in question is (obviously?) most usefully targeted at the “peer group” hierarchy than the “academia prestige” hierarchy. If you intend to become a grad student in that university’s philosophy department silence is preferred to cocky laughter. If you intend to just complete the subject and and continue study in some other area while achieving social goals with peers (including getting high quality partners for future group work) then the cocky laughter will be more useful than silence.
“It is not the case that chance of getting laid is sufficiently correlated with social status as to be at all relevant as a measure thereof”
Is social status the only thing you care about when in a classroom?
And “sufficiently correlated” isn’t good enough, per Goodhart’s law. You can improve your chances of getting laid even more by getting drunk in a night club in a major city, and you can bring them close to 1 by paying a prostitute.
Is social status the only thing you care about when in a classroom?
It’s a minor concern, often below getting rest, immediate sense of boredom or the audiobook I’m listening to. I’m certainly neither a model student (with respect to things like lecture attendance and engagement as opposed to grades) nor a particularly dedicated status optimiser.
I think you must have interpreted my words differently than I intended them. I would not expect that reply if the meaning had come across clearly but I am not quite sure where the confusion is.
And “sufficiently correlated” isn’t good enough, per Goodhart’s law. You can improve your chances of getting laid even more by getting drunk in a night club in a major city, and you can bring them close to 1 by paying a prostitute.
I think there must be some miscommunication here. There is a difference between considering a metric to be somewhat useful as a means of evaluating something and outright replacing one’s preferences with a lost purpose. I had thought we were talking about the first of these. The quote you made includes ‘at all relevant’ (a low standard) and in the context was merely a rejection of the claim ‘nonsense’.
I think you must have interpreted my words differently than I intended them. I would not expect that reply if the meaning had come across clearly but I am not quite sure where the confusion is.
So, you said:
He ‘should’ feel embarassment if the if interfered with his social goals in the context. All things considered it most likely did not, (assuming he did not immediately signal humiliation and submission, which it appears he didn’t).
ISTM this doesn’t follow unless you assume he had no goals other than social ones that his burst of laughter could have interfered with; am I missing something?
I think there must be some miscommunication here. There is a difference between considering a metric to be somewhat useful as a means of evaluating something and outright replacing one’s preferences with a lost purpose. I had thought we were talking about the first of these. The quote you made includes ‘at all relevant’ (a low standard) and in the context was merely a rejection of the claim ‘nonsense’.
ISTM this doesn’t follow unless you assume he had no goals other than social ones that his burst of laughter could have interfered with; am I missing something?
Ahh, pardon me. I was replying at that time to the statement “You should be embarrassed by this story.”, where embarrassment is something I would describe as an emotional response to realising that you made a social blunder. It occurs to me now that I could have better conveyed my intended meaning if I included the other words inside my quotation marks like:
He “should feel embarrassment” if the if interfered with his social goals in the context.
Thank you for explaining. I was quite confused about what wasn’t working in that communication.
I agree with your implicature and wonder whether we have correctly resolved the ambiguity in ‘nonsense’. It seems it could either mean “It is not the case that this would raise his chance of getting laid” or “It is not the case that chance of getting laid is sufficiently correlated with social status as to be at all relevant as a measure thereof”. I honestly don’t know which one is the most charitable reading because I consider them approximately equally as wrong.
As an aside, my motive for throwing in ‘chance of getting laid’ was that often ‘status’ is considered too ephemeral or abstract and I wanted to put things in terms that are clearly falsifiable. It also helps distinguish between different kinds of status and the different overlapping social hierarchies. The action in question is (obviously?) most usefully targeted at the “peer group” hierarchy than the “academia prestige” hierarchy. If you intend to become a grad student in that university’s philosophy department silence is preferred to cocky laughter. If you intend to just complete the subject and and continue study in some other area while achieving social goals with peers (including getting high quality partners for future group work) then the cocky laughter will be more useful than silence.
Is social status the only thing you care about when in a classroom?
And “sufficiently correlated” isn’t good enough, per Goodhart’s law. You can improve your chances of getting laid even more by getting drunk in a night club in a major city, and you can bring them close to 1 by paying a prostitute.
It’s a minor concern, often below getting rest, immediate sense of boredom or the audiobook I’m listening to. I’m certainly neither a model student (with respect to things like lecture attendance and engagement as opposed to grades) nor a particularly dedicated status optimiser.
I think you must have interpreted my words differently than I intended them. I would not expect that reply if the meaning had come across clearly but I am not quite sure where the confusion is.
I think there must be some miscommunication here. There is a difference between considering a metric to be somewhat useful as a means of evaluating something and outright replacing one’s preferences with a lost purpose. I had thought we were talking about the first of these. The quote you made includes ‘at all relevant’ (a low standard) and in the context was merely a rejection of the claim ‘nonsense’.
So, you said:
ISTM this doesn’t follow unless you assume he had no goals other than social ones that his burst of laughter could have interfered with; am I missing something?
OK, I see it now.
Ahh, pardon me. I was replying at that time to the statement “You should be embarrassed by this story.”, where embarrassment is something I would describe as an emotional response to realising that you made a social blunder. It occurs to me now that I could have better conveyed my intended meaning if I included the other words inside my quotation marks like:
Thank you for explaining. I was quite confused about what wasn’t working in that communication.