On the one hand preloading the idea that I might move the goalposts is good argumentation. But at the risk of appearing to do that, let me try some rationalization.
Could the words patriotism and nationalism haven a meaning in the Netherlands which has been distorted by the traumatic history with a neighbor that linked these words so powerfully with expansionism and genocide?
The Netherlands is a democracy which supports a conscript army. They are a founding and continuing member of NATO. The Netherlands is famous for its international courts. Would you say that the Dutch tend to be neutral on the question of their continued existence as Dutch?
Perhaps the Dutch reject Nazi-style patriotism and nationalism but have their own spin on their national identify that, looked at through non-Nazi filtered glasses, is a flavor of nationalism and patriotism after all?
Yes, our attitude towards nationalism has certainly been shaped by WW2. I’m not enough of a historian, but it may also be important to note that the Netherlands have been a rather fragmented (we prefer “tolerant”) society before WW2; that is, one’s loyalty was more to “the catholics” or “the socialists” than to the nation itself.
Although we technically still have conscription, it’s been “paused” for many years, and re-introducing it would be unpopular, to say the least. We are indeed quite active in a military sense, but the current army is all-voiunteer and rather small. Humanitarian aid and international justice are more our speed (although humanitarian aid is increasingly coming under fire for being less effective than promised.)
Football matches and the monarchy aside, I haven’t detected many traces of nationalism in the Netherlands. With our local far-right party riding high in the polls, there has been an effort to revitalize Dutch nationalism, but that hasn’t been very successful. (Xenophobia/racism/anti-islam has been much more successful in setting the debate and drawing votes.)
Thanks.
On the one hand preloading the idea that I might move the goalposts is good argumentation. But at the risk of appearing to do that, let me try some rationalization.
Could the words patriotism and nationalism haven a meaning in the Netherlands which has been distorted by the traumatic history with a neighbor that linked these words so powerfully with expansionism and genocide?
The Netherlands is a democracy which supports a conscript army. They are a founding and continuing member of NATO. The Netherlands is famous for its international courts. Would you say that the Dutch tend to be neutral on the question of their continued existence as Dutch?
Perhaps the Dutch reject Nazi-style patriotism and nationalism but have their own spin on their national identify that, looked at through non-Nazi filtered glasses, is a flavor of nationalism and patriotism after all?
Yes, our attitude towards nationalism has certainly been shaped by WW2. I’m not enough of a historian, but it may also be important to note that the Netherlands have been a rather fragmented (we prefer “tolerant”) society before WW2; that is, one’s loyalty was more to “the catholics” or “the socialists” than to the nation itself.
Although we technically still have conscription, it’s been “paused” for many years, and re-introducing it would be unpopular, to say the least. We are indeed quite active in a military sense, but the current army is all-voiunteer and rather small. Humanitarian aid and international justice are more our speed (although humanitarian aid is increasingly coming under fire for being less effective than promised.)
Football matches and the monarchy aside, I haven’t detected many traces of nationalism in the Netherlands. With our local far-right party riding high in the polls, there has been an effort to revitalize Dutch nationalism, but that hasn’t been very successful. (Xenophobia/racism/anti-islam has been much more successful in setting the debate and drawing votes.)