Indeed, but that wasn’t the problem this post was trying to solve. On lesswrong any users who are that irrational are down-voted into oblivion. In fact, they very rarely venture to post at all.
“Indeed, but that wasn’t the problem this post was trying to solve.”
(seperator)
“Why do long, uninspiring, and seemingly-childish debates sometimes emerge even in a community like LessWrong? And what can we do about them?”
So it is mostly focused on LW, but there is a deeper issue here: What are you supposed to do when engaged in a childish/fruitless argument? I have yet to here a good universal answer. Maybe “just walk away” is good enough most of the time, but sometimes its not. Sometimes you can’t walk away. Sometimes the issue is important.
I saw this as more a “community norms” fix than a universal cure for “someone’s-wrong-on-the-internet” syndrome.
ETA: On second thought, I didn’t really address your question. I guess I see it as obvious that most Internet arguments (outside of well-functioning communities) aren’t worth entering as anything besides entertainment.
Ya, but even beyond the internet, this is a universal problem. Sometimes its more then just a hobby to try to convince someone to do the right thing. Virtually any political debate would be a good example. And the fact that our court system is so inconsistent only testifies to this problem.
By the time you’re in an argument, you’ve already failed to change the other persons mind—their defenses are up, and you’re not getting in unless you have some combination of unusually good debating skills, unusually high weight of evidence on your side, and an unusual willingness of the other participant to change their mind mid-tack.
An argument is a fight, and people struggle harder against losing fights than possibly anything else. On the other hand, if you just walk away, let their emotions cool down, give them time to consider your points when they don’t feel threatened, you might be surprised as to how often they’ll come around—especially if they can do it without losing face (ie: you don’t gloat and rub it in their face). The only arguments I’ve ever “won”, I’ve won like this.
Indeed, but that wasn’t the problem this post was trying to solve. On lesswrong any users who are that irrational are down-voted into oblivion. In fact, they very rarely venture to post at all.
(seperator)
So it is mostly focused on LW, but there is a deeper issue here: What are you supposed to do when engaged in a childish/fruitless argument? I have yet to here a good universal answer. Maybe “just walk away” is good enough most of the time, but sometimes its not. Sometimes you can’t walk away. Sometimes the issue is important.
I saw this as more a “community norms” fix than a universal cure for “someone’s-wrong-on-the-internet” syndrome.
ETA: On second thought, I didn’t really address your question. I guess I see it as obvious that most Internet arguments (outside of well-functioning communities) aren’t worth entering as anything besides entertainment.
Ya, but even beyond the internet, this is a universal problem. Sometimes its more then just a hobby to try to convince someone to do the right thing. Virtually any political debate would be a good example. And the fact that our court system is so inconsistent only testifies to this problem.
By the time you’re in an argument, you’ve already failed to change the other persons mind—their defenses are up, and you’re not getting in unless you have some combination of unusually good debating skills, unusually high weight of evidence on your side, and an unusual willingness of the other participant to change their mind mid-tack.
An argument is a fight, and people struggle harder against losing fights than possibly anything else. On the other hand, if you just walk away, let their emotions cool down, give them time to consider your points when they don’t feel threatened, you might be surprised as to how often they’ll come around—especially if they can do it without losing face (ie: you don’t gloat and rub it in their face). The only arguments I’ve ever “won”, I’ve won like this.