To elaborate on this, I think one of the arguments for verbal consent was along these lines: “Some women panic freeze and become silent when they’re uncomfortable, they aren’t capable of saying no in that state.”
I think it’s worth considering the needs of such women. However, I suspect they are a minority of the population, and it seems like common sense to stop if your partner is unresponsive. I feel we may have prematurely decided that verbal consent is the best way to address this situation. Maybe a better approach, especially with subdued women, would be asking something like: “Can I trust you to let me know if you’re becoming uncomfortable?”, then adjust going forward depending on her answer. This approach doesn’t put her on the spot in the same way the “big consent” approach does.
Another thing. I think consent discussion is hotter when framed in terms of desire. Either “Do you want to make out?”, or “I want to make out with you” (and waiting for her verbal reply/nonverbal makeout initiation). Asking “May I make out with you?” puts the man in a subservient petitioner position which is not as erotic in my view. (Of course, if that’s what you’re into, then go ahead.)
I’ve also heard it claimed that the “big consent” approach can actually be a bit of a masculine power play. I think the idea is that a typical man will say something like: “Would you like to come up and see my etchings?” But if instead you say: “Would you like to come up and have sex?” That’s hot because you’re being direct, assertive, virile, and demonstrating a willingness to violate a (mild) taboo. This approach seems best to me if you feel fairly certain she will either assent in some manner (“maybe let’s see”), or be comfortable rejecting you. It seems like a worse fit for subdued or anxious women.
Very interested to hear feedback on all my thoughts in this thread, especially from women.
To elaborate on this, I think one of the arguments for verbal consent was along these lines: “Some women panic freeze and become silent when they’re uncomfortable, they aren’t capable of saying no in that state.”
This should be an argument for affirmative consent, which isn’t the same as verbal consent (like, you mention “waiting for… nonverbal makeout initiation”). I do see people conflate them or background-assume that the one must be the other, which I think makes these conversations a lot worse.
To elaborate on this, I think one of the arguments for verbal consent was along these lines: “Some women panic freeze and become silent when they’re uncomfortable, they aren’t capable of saying no in that state.”
I think it’s worth considering the needs of such women. However, I suspect they are a minority of the population, and it seems like common sense to stop if your partner is unresponsive. I feel we may have prematurely decided that verbal consent is the best way to address this situation. Maybe a better approach, especially with subdued women, would be asking something like: “Can I trust you to let me know if you’re becoming uncomfortable?”, then adjust going forward depending on her answer. This approach doesn’t put her on the spot in the same way the “big consent” approach does.
Another thing. I think consent discussion is hotter when framed in terms of desire. Either “Do you want to make out?”, or “I want to make out with you” (and waiting for her verbal reply/nonverbal makeout initiation). Asking “May I make out with you?” puts the man in a subservient petitioner position which is not as erotic in my view. (Of course, if that’s what you’re into, then go ahead.)
I’ve also heard it claimed that the “big consent” approach can actually be a bit of a masculine power play. I think the idea is that a typical man will say something like: “Would you like to come up and see my etchings?” But if instead you say: “Would you like to come up and have sex?” That’s hot because you’re being direct, assertive, virile, and demonstrating a willingness to violate a (mild) taboo. This approach seems best to me if you feel fairly certain she will either assent in some manner (“maybe let’s see”), or be comfortable rejecting you. It seems like a worse fit for subdued or anxious women.
Very interested to hear feedback on all my thoughts in this thread, especially from women.
This should be an argument for affirmative consent, which isn’t the same as verbal consent (like, you mention “waiting for… nonverbal makeout initiation”). I do see people conflate them or background-assume that the one must be the other, which I think makes these conversations a lot worse.