I’m writing this mostly because I’m finding it horrifying that it appears the LessWrong consensus reality is treating “nonconsent” stuff as a cornerstone of how it views women.
A fair portion of the most visible bits are John downstream of I think something like https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/qGMonyLRXFRnCWSj6/generalized-coming-out-of-the-closet. From what I gather from a distance the bay has a pretty intense BDSM scene, which I’m sure is great for many people, but it’s something with sharp edges that don’t look like they’re being sufficiently respected or understood by all participants.
Almost every woman I have known well enough that they would have told me about it has showed psychological harm from previous unwanted sexual advances or, very often, worse. This is regularly the largest trauma they have, and some of the stories are pretty shocking and consistent in a way that lets you trace it the way minds in general are shaped around this.
One of the core cultural adaptations to the fact that the male sex drive can be expressed destructively is normalising consent as a required feature of sexuality. @johnswentworth’s arranging language here seems to reduce the potency of that bright line in a way which looks to me likely to increase the rate of serious harm and generate legitimate feelings of unsafety in a large number of women.
Additionally, normalising nonconsent as a way to get sex tilts desperate or inexperienced men towards terrible, life ruining, mistakes when the person they advance on doesn’t have this specific kink AND the unstated consent to not need verbal consent with this person at this time.
I’m also curious about other observations, from James or others who agreed. (I’m not against the claim, but haven’t noticed it, and can’t think of examples. Bad if true.)
(… I guess there is a social-and-memetic cluster around Aella that rubs me the wrong way, for reasons that kinda rhyme with this? But I wouldn’t describe it the way James did, and definitely don’t see that cluster on LW itself much or see it as LW consensus reality.)
Can you elaborate/give examples of this?
A fair portion of the most visible bits are John downstream of I think something like https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/qGMonyLRXFRnCWSj6/generalized-coming-out-of-the-closet. From what I gather from a distance the bay has a pretty intense BDSM scene, which I’m sure is great for many people, but it’s something with sharp edges that don’t look like they’re being sufficiently respected or understood by all participants.
Almost every woman I have known well enough that they would have told me about it has showed psychological harm from previous unwanted sexual advances or, very often, worse. This is regularly the largest trauma they have, and some of the stories are pretty shocking and consistent in a way that lets you trace it the way minds in general are shaped around this.
One of the core cultural adaptations to the fact that the male sex drive can be expressed destructively is normalising consent as a required feature of sexuality. @johnswentworth’s arranging language here seems to reduce the potency of that bright line in a way which looks to me likely to increase the rate of serious harm and generate legitimate feelings of unsafety in a large number of women.
Additionally, normalising nonconsent as a way to get sex tilts desperate or inexperienced men towards terrible, life ruining, mistakes when the person they advance on doesn’t have this specific kink AND the unstated consent to not need verbal consent with this person at this time.
I’m also curious about other observations, from James or others who agreed. (I’m not against the claim, but haven’t noticed it, and can’t think of examples. Bad if true.)
(… I guess there is a social-and-memetic cluster around Aella that rubs me the wrong way, for reasons that kinda rhyme with this? But I wouldn’t describe it the way James did, and definitely don’t see that cluster on LW itself much or see it as LW consensus reality.)