Almost everyone at the table immediately recognized what we were talking about and agreed that modelling some people as agents and some people as complex systems was a thing they did.
Wow. I did not realize that so many other people felt aware of this dichotomy.
So, usually when I’m in a good mood, there isn’t any dichotomy. I model everyone in exactly the same way that I model myself—as individuals with certain strengths and weaknesses. You might say that I even model myself as a complex system, to a degree. The model is complete enough that the complex system feels like an agent—things like personal responsibility and ability to do stuff are parts of the model.
However, when I am in a depressed mood, things start to change. I start modelling everyone as complex systems and the models are pessimistic and I do it in such a way that somehow makes me perceive them like objects, or perhaps like non-human animals or the senile. As a result of not feeling like they are people, I am overcome by a feeling of intense loneliness.
As with your roommate, much of the frustration is that I expect them to behave the way that you describe “agents”, but they keep failing to meet expectations- and some of this frustration is self directed as well, when I see myself making the same mistakes despite knowing that they are mistakes and knowing the neurological reasons behind why I keep making the mistakes. The is-aught dichotomy is the cause of the frustration—it’s the sort of frustration you might direct at a broken computer tinged with a sense of disappointment, a sense that it could be so much more.
But when I’m in a good mood, this all fades away. I’m able to model people as agenty-complex systems while retaining normal emotional attachment and still feeling like they are people. When I’m in a good mood, awareness of my own limitations and other’s limitations actually makes it easier to accept when we make mistakes.
I want to model her as an agent… she’s one of the least agenty people I know...So I consistently, predictably get mad at her
So I think you may be like bad-mood-me in this respect: You might have difficulty simultaneously modeling people as complex systems while relating to them emotionally as people.
Even though there isn’t actually an IQ-depression correlation (or at least, I haven’t found one in the literature) I think this whole “most people are NPCs” complex might strike at the heart of why there is a perception that smart people feel lonely and depressed—or at least misanthropic.
Other than positive affect, one thing that somewhat cures this misanthropy problem for me is compassion meditation. I start with people who are closest to me, and think about the love that they feel for me. Then I imagine people who are further for me, and imagine the love that they feel for each other. Basically, I re-affirm that even if people don’t always act the correct way, they share fundamental values with me. I try to extent the thoughts as far as I can, making sure to identify the people who frustrate me the most and identifying the points at which we share fundamental values. This practice doesn’t necessarily increase positive affect, but it does make the sense of loneliness go away.
Basically, instead of modelling people as complex systems in a way that deagentizes them, it’s better to model people as complex systems who are also agent-like and who are trying to be a certain way, but failing because of x,y, z complex system flaws.
Wow. I did not realize that so many other people felt aware of this dichotomy.
So, usually when I’m in a good mood, there isn’t any dichotomy. I model everyone in exactly the same way that I model myself—as individuals with certain strengths and weaknesses. You might say that I even model myself as a complex system, to a degree. The model is complete enough that the complex system feels like an agent—things like personal responsibility and ability to do stuff are parts of the model.
However, when I am in a depressed mood, things start to change. I start modelling everyone as complex systems and the models are pessimistic and I do it in such a way that somehow makes me perceive them like objects, or perhaps like non-human animals or the senile. As a result of not feeling like they are people, I am overcome by a feeling of intense loneliness.
As with your roommate, much of the frustration is that I expect them to behave the way that you describe “agents”, but they keep failing to meet expectations- and some of this frustration is self directed as well, when I see myself making the same mistakes despite knowing that they are mistakes and knowing the neurological reasons behind why I keep making the mistakes. The is-aught dichotomy is the cause of the frustration—it’s the sort of frustration you might direct at a broken computer tinged with a sense of disappointment, a sense that it could be so much more.
But when I’m in a good mood, this all fades away. I’m able to model people as agenty-complex systems while retaining normal emotional attachment and still feeling like they are people. When I’m in a good mood, awareness of my own limitations and other’s limitations actually makes it easier to accept when we make mistakes.
So I think you may be like bad-mood-me in this respect: You might have difficulty simultaneously modeling people as complex systems while relating to them emotionally as people.
Even though there isn’t actually an IQ-depression correlation (or at least, I haven’t found one in the literature) I think this whole “most people are NPCs” complex might strike at the heart of why there is a perception that smart people feel lonely and depressed—or at least misanthropic.
Other than positive affect, one thing that somewhat cures this misanthropy problem for me is compassion meditation. I start with people who are closest to me, and think about the love that they feel for me. Then I imagine people who are further for me, and imagine the love that they feel for each other. Basically, I re-affirm that even if people don’t always act the correct way, they share fundamental values with me. I try to extent the thoughts as far as I can, making sure to identify the people who frustrate me the most and identifying the points at which we share fundamental values. This practice doesn’t necessarily increase positive affect, but it does make the sense of loneliness go away.
Basically, instead of modelling people as complex systems in a way that deagentizes them, it’s better to model people as complex systems who are also agent-like and who are trying to be a certain way, but failing because of x,y, z complex system flaws.