Petrov Day has a variety of themes. A few comments here endorse the unilateralist interpretation, but insofar as another thematic connection is conscientious objection or resisting social pressure, the following argument applies:
You offered the option “resist social pressure”. As I argued, this option doesn’t really work, in that picking it doesn’t really mean what it sounds like. It’s like giving someone the options “think inside the box” or “think outside the box”. Then choosing the latter is not a sign of creativity, just like choosing the option “resist social pressure” is not sufficiently (honoring the virtue of) resisting social pressure, because by picking it you’re ultimately still conforming to the frame you’ve been given. I don’t know if this point resonates, but I feel pretty strongly about it.
(Relatedly, it’s in some sense harder to resist the social pressure of your own peer group than that of the broader society.)
Anyway, due to the above, if you want an option to actually symbolize <resist social pressure>, then options like “mu” or “do not participate” imo work much better than the explicit description “resist social pressure”, because these alternatives let people answer without needing to buy into the provided frame.
Sorry, I get the point that the option provided doesn’t let you mu/reject the frame. It’s not clear to me that this is a core framing of Petrov’s actions/virtue was conscientious objection or so on.
Beyond that, the survey wasn’t aiming to allow people to symbolically act out their responses or to reject the frame in an unambiguous way. Insisting that you get to register that you saw it but didn’t like it feels like insisting that you get to participate, but in your own way, rather than simply not engaging if you don’t like it. I also feel like if there was an option to conscientious object and you took that, that’d still be within the frame I created for you to do so? But open to being corrected here.
Beyond that, the survey wasn’t aiming to allow people to symbolically act out their responses or to reject the frame in an unambiguous way. Insisting that you get to register that you saw it but didn’t like it feels like insisting that you get to participate, but in your own way, rather than simply not engaging if you don’t like it.
Well, personally speaking, I’ve already spent more time on my comments here than were warranted by my initial annoyance. So if I consider just myself, then choosing not to vote, followed by registering that non-vote in a comment, was of course a sufficient (albeit time-consuming) way to object.
However, looking at this comment thread by Said shows that besides me, at least three other people (EDIT: here’s one more) had problems with the framing and hence didn’t vote. But because there was no “mu” option, we’ll never know whether the proportion of those people was 0.1%, 1%, 10%, 50%, 90%, or whatever. That I continue to find unfortunate, and a “mu” option would’ve remedied this problem.
If I were to do it again, I might include such an option, though I’m still not terribly sad I didn’t.
If we really wanted that info, I could sample and survey people who received the message, looked at it (we have data to know this) and ask them why they didn’t vote. My guess is between 1-10% of people who didn’t vote because of frame commented about it,, so that’s 40 to 400.
372 people have responded by now out of 2500, so 15%. Let’s guess that 50% of people saw it by now, so ~1250 (though could get better data on it). A third responded if so, which seems great for a poll. Of those the 800 who saw but didn’t, I could see 100-400 doing so because the frame didn’t really seem right (lining up with the above estimate). Which seems fine. I bet if I’d spent 10x developing the poll, I wouldn’t get that number down much, and knowing it with more precision doesn’t really help. It’s LW, people are very picky and precise (a virtue...but also makes having some nice things hard).
Petrov Day has a variety of themes. A few comments here endorse the unilateralist interpretation, but insofar as another thematic connection is conscientious objection or resisting social pressure, the following argument applies:
You offered the option “resist social pressure”. As I argued, this option doesn’t really work, in that picking it doesn’t really mean what it sounds like. It’s like giving someone the options “think inside the box” or “think outside the box”. Then choosing the latter is not a sign of creativity, just like choosing the option “resist social pressure” is not sufficiently (honoring the virtue of) resisting social pressure, because by picking it you’re ultimately still conforming to the frame you’ve been given. I don’t know if this point resonates, but I feel pretty strongly about it.
(Relatedly, it’s in some sense harder to resist the social pressure of your own peer group than that of the broader society.)
Anyway, due to the above, if you want an option to actually symbolize <resist social pressure>, then options like “mu” or “do not participate” imo work much better than the explicit description “resist social pressure”, because these alternatives let people answer without needing to buy into the provided frame.
Sorry, I get the point that the option provided doesn’t let you mu/reject the frame. It’s not clear to me that this is a core framing of Petrov’s actions/virtue was conscientious objection or so on.
Beyond that, the survey wasn’t aiming to allow people to symbolically act out their responses or to reject the frame in an unambiguous way. Insisting that you get to register that you saw it but didn’t like it feels like insisting that you get to participate, but in your own way, rather than simply not engaging if you don’t like it. I also feel like if there was an option to conscientious object and you took that, that’d still be within the frame I created for you to do so? But open to being corrected here.
Well, personally speaking, I’ve already spent more time on my comments here than were warranted by my initial annoyance. So if I consider just myself, then choosing not to vote, followed by registering that non-vote in a comment, was of course a sufficient (albeit time-consuming) way to object.
However, looking at this comment thread by Said shows that besides me, at least three other people (EDIT: here’s one more) had problems with the framing and hence didn’t vote. But because there was no “mu” option, we’ll never know whether the proportion of those people was 0.1%, 1%, 10%, 50%, 90%, or whatever. That I continue to find unfortunate, and a “mu” option would’ve remedied this problem.
If I were to do it again, I might include such an option, though I’m still not terribly sad I didn’t.
If we really wanted that info, I could sample and survey people who received the message, looked at it (we have data to know this) and ask them why they didn’t vote. My guess is between 1-10% of people who didn’t vote because of frame commented about it,, so that’s 40 to 400.
372 people have responded by now out of 2500, so 15%. Let’s guess that 50% of people saw it by now, so ~1250 (though could get better data on it). A third responded if so, which seems great for a poll. Of those the 800 who saw but didn’t, I could see 100-400 doing so because the frame didn’t really seem right (lining up with the above estimate). Which seems fine. I bet if I’d spent 10x developing the poll, I wouldn’t get that number down much, and knowing it with more precision doesn’t really help. It’s LW, people are very picky and precise (a virtue...but also makes having some nice things hard).