Thanks for writing this—it introduces a concept I hadn’t considered before.
However, I do find myself disagreeing on many of the specific arguments:
“Has someone you know ever had a ‘breakthrough’ from coaching, meditation, or psychedelics — only to later have it fade”
I think this misses that those “fading” breakthroughs are actually the core mechanisms of growth. The way I see it, people who are struggling are stuck in a maze. Through coaching/meditation/psychedelics, they glimpse a path out, but when they’re back in the maze with a muddy floor, they might not fully remember. My claim is that through integration, they learn which mental knobs to switch to get out. And changing their environments will make the mud / maze disappear.
“after my @jhanatech retreat I was like ‘I’m never going to be depressed again!’ then proceeded to get depressed again...”
I don’t think the jhanatech example is great here. During their retreats (I’ve done one), they explicitly insist you integrate jhanas, by doing normal things like cooking, walking, talking to close friends. And they go to extreme lengths to make sure you continue practicing after. I do know multiple people who have continued integrating those jhanic states post-retreat, or at least the core of the lessons they learned after.
“For example, many people experience ego deaths that can last days or sometimes months.”
My experience talking to meditation/psychedelics folks is that ego death becomes increasingly accessible after the first time, and the diminished ego often stays permanently even if the full feeling doesn’t.
“If someone has a ‘breakthrough’ that unexpectedly reverts, they can become jaded on progress itself...”
I agree non-integrated breakthroughs can lead to hopelessness. However, this “most depressed person you know” basically has many puzzle pieces missing and an unfavorable environment. What needs to happen is finding the pieces, integrating them, while transforming their environment.
“The simplest, most common way this happens is via cliche inspirational statements: [...] ‘Just let go of all resistance,’”
“Let go of resistance” points at something quite universal. The fact that not-processing things makes them stronger. I don’t think this one loses its effect like you mention.
“Flaky breakthroughs are common. Long-term feedback loops matter!”
Note: I do agree with your main thesis, which I’d paraphrase as: “we need to ensure long-term positive outcomes, not just short-term improvements, and unfortunately coaches don’t really track that.”
Thanks for writing this—it introduces a concept I hadn’t considered before.
However, I do find myself disagreeing on many of the specific arguments:
I think this misses that those “fading” breakthroughs are actually the core mechanisms of growth. The way I see it, people who are struggling are stuck in a maze. Through coaching/meditation/psychedelics, they glimpse a path out, but when they’re back in the maze with a muddy floor, they might not fully remember. My claim is that through integration, they learn which mental knobs to switch to get out. And changing their environments will make the mud / maze disappear.
I don’t think the jhanatech example is great here. During their retreats (I’ve done one), they explicitly insist you integrate jhanas, by doing normal things like cooking, walking, talking to close friends. And they go to extreme lengths to make sure you continue practicing after. I do know multiple people who have continued integrating those jhanic states post-retreat, or at least the core of the lessons they learned after.
My experience talking to meditation/psychedelics folks is that ego death becomes increasingly accessible after the first time, and the diminished ego often stays permanently even if the full feeling doesn’t.
I agree non-integrated breakthroughs can lead to hopelessness. However, this “most depressed person you know” basically has many puzzle pieces missing and an unfavorable environment. What needs to happen is finding the pieces, integrating them, while transforming their environment.
“Let go of resistance” points at something quite universal. The fact that not-processing things makes them stronger. I don’t think this one loses its effect like you mention.
Note: I do agree with your main thesis, which I’d paraphrase as: “we need to ensure long-term positive outcomes, not just short-term improvements, and unfortunately coaches don’t really track that.”