I found this very informative, but I think I can contribute to this discussion from the opposite direction. The problem of having too little frame control is also something that exists. Both extremes are bad.
On one end you are pushing your frame on a person, without trying to account for their current value system. In fact if you do it gently, slowly and find a pathway they would want to talk then it becomes moral. If I know the right buttons to push, the right arguments, the evidence, the life experience that could get a friend to adopt the values, beliefs that I hold. I can “guide” him to the state I want him to inhabit. A lot of this can be legitimate communication.
You clearly marked out the boundaries where it becomes immoral, hurtful, and wrong. But imagine a person who respects other people’s frames to the extent that he takes up the frame of the person he talks to, he finds it easy to relate to the person. For example, even if he was an atheist, when talking to a religious person he will assume god exists and proceed with such assumptions.
People like that can be seen as too flexible, not having any character, it can affect how attractive they are. They tend to not climb social hierarchies, accumulate power and influence. People like that can have trouble recommending software, movies, lifestyles because while they love some aspect of these behaviors they wonder if it is their place to decide for them. They are careful to provide the facts and let the other person come to their decision regarding what decision to take.
I think when discussing frame control it is useful to also look at the consequences of a community where it has a lot of stigma associated with it. Since you clearly hate people who abuse it, you are sensitive to people who misuse it and might be blind to the other extreme.
I found this very informative, but I think I can contribute to this discussion from the opposite direction. The problem of having too little frame control is also something that exists. Both extremes are bad.
On one end you are pushing your frame on a person, without trying to account for their current value system. In fact if you do it gently, slowly and find a pathway they would want to talk then it becomes moral. If I know the right buttons to push, the right arguments, the evidence, the life experience that could get a friend to adopt the values, beliefs that I hold. I can “guide” him to the state I want him to inhabit. A lot of this can be legitimate communication.
You clearly marked out the boundaries where it becomes immoral, hurtful, and wrong. But imagine a person who respects other people’s frames to the extent that he takes up the frame of the person he talks to, he finds it easy to relate to the person. For example, even if he was an atheist, when talking to a religious person he will assume god exists and proceed with such assumptions.
People like that can be seen as too flexible, not having any character, it can affect how attractive they are. They tend to not climb social hierarchies, accumulate power and influence. People like that can have trouble recommending software, movies, lifestyles because while they love some aspect of these behaviors they wonder if it is their place to decide for them. They are careful to provide the facts and let the other person come to their decision regarding what decision to take.
I think when discussing frame control it is useful to also look at the consequences of a community where it has a lot of stigma associated with it. Since you clearly hate people who abuse it, you are sensitive to people who misuse it and might be blind to the other extreme.