Agreed that removing the condition against first principles would perhaps screw stuff up more.
But the attitude against original research is uncalled for. When there’s someone who misunderstands the quoted articles, you can’t just go ahead and refer to first principles, noooo thats original research, and the attitude is: i’m not ashamed i’m instead proud i don’t understand topic we’re talking about, i’m proud i don’t (because can’t) do original research. Non experts come up with all sorts of weird nonsense interpretations of what experts say, that experts would never even feel need to publish anything to dispel. And then you can’t argue with them rationally, they proudly reject any argumentation from first principles.
Huh, yes. OR shouldn’t be allowed into articles but it should on talk pages. (Plus, some people use a ridiculously broad definition of OR. If I pointed out that the speed of light in m/s is exact and the number of metres in a yard is exact and proceeded to give the exact value of the speed of light in imperial units, and I called that original research of mine anywhere outside Wikipedia, I’d be (rightly) laughed away. Hell, even my pointing out that the word Jewish has several meanings was dismissed as OR, by someone who insisted that on Wikipedia the only possible meaning of Jewish is ‘someone who a reliable source refers to as Jewish’.
If I pointed out that the speed of light in m/s is exact and the number of metres in a yard is exact and proceeded to give the exact value of the speed of light in imperial units
someone who insisted that on Wikipedia the only possible meaning of Jewish is ‘someone who a reliable source refers to as Jewish’.
That actually sounds pretty reasonable to me. If you want to use a more nuanced concept to refer to someone, you could always find a reliable source who has used that nuanced concept to refer to the person. Or you could do the OR somewhere else and then someone else can use that to improve the article.
If I pointed out that the speed of light in m/s is exact and the number of metres in a yard is exact and proceeded to give the exact value of the speed of light in imperial units
For some time, they claimed that converting exact values as rational numbers (as opposed to conversions with a finite number of sigfigs) is not a routine calculation. (To be honest, I’m not sure I remember what eventually happened. [goes to check] Oh, yeah. The footnote stayed because we did find a citation. Not that I’d normally consider the personal website of a cryptographer as a reliable source, but still.)
Agreed that removing the condition against first principles would perhaps screw stuff up more.
But the attitude against original research is uncalled for. When there’s someone who misunderstands the quoted articles, you can’t just go ahead and refer to first principles, noooo thats original research, and the attitude is: i’m not ashamed i’m instead proud i don’t understand topic we’re talking about, i’m proud i don’t (because can’t) do original research. Non experts come up with all sorts of weird nonsense interpretations of what experts say, that experts would never even feel need to publish anything to dispel. And then you can’t argue with them rationally, they proudly reject any argumentation from first principles.
Huh, yes. OR shouldn’t be allowed into articles but it should on talk pages. (Plus, some people use a ridiculously broad definition of OR. If I pointed out that the speed of light in m/s is exact and the number of metres in a yard is exact and proceeded to give the exact value of the speed of light in imperial units, and I called that original research of mine anywhere outside Wikipedia, I’d be (rightly) laughed away. Hell, even my pointing out that the word Jewish has several meanings was dismissed as OR, by someone who insisted that on Wikipedia the only possible meaning of Jewish is ‘someone who a reliable source refers to as Jewish’.
That’s not reasonably called OR on Wikipedia either. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research#Routine_calculations
That actually sounds pretty reasonable to me. If you want to use a more nuanced concept to refer to someone, you could always find a reliable source who has used that nuanced concept to refer to the person. Or you could do the OR somewhere else and then someone else can use that to improve the article.
For some time, they claimed that converting exact values as rational numbers (as opposed to conversions with a finite number of sigfigs) is not a routine calculation. (To be honest, I’m not sure I remember what eventually happened. [goes to check] Oh, yeah. The footnote stayed because we did find a citation. Not that I’d normally consider the personal website of a cryptographer as a reliable source, but still.)