Coscott’s original problem is unsolvable by standard means because the expected number of wakings is infinite, so you can’t determine a frequency. That doesn’t mean it is unanswerable – we just need an isomorphism. After informing SB of the procedure and putting her to sleep the first time:
1) Set M=0.
2) Select a number N (I’ll discuss how later).
3) Flip a coin.
a. If this (odd-numbered) flip lands heads, wake SB N times and end the experiment.
b. If this flip (odd-numbered) lands tails, continue to step 4.
4) Flip the coin again.
a. If this (even-numbered) flip lands heads, wake SB 3*N times and end the experiment;
b. If this (even-numbered)flip lands tails, set M=M+1 go to step #2.
In Coscott’s version, we start with N=1 and multiply it by 9 each time we choose a new one; that is, N=9^M. But does the answer depend on N in any way? Halfers don’t think the answer depends on the number of wakings at all, and thirders think it depends only on the ratio of wakings in step 3a to those in step 4a, not the specific values.
So I maintain that my problem is the same as coscott’s, except in scale, no matter how we choose N. We can answer the original question by choosing N=1 every time.
There is a 2⁄3 chance of ending after an odd number of flips, and a 1⁄3 chance of ending after an even number. A halfer should claim SB gains no new knowledge by being awake, so P(odd|awake)=2/3 and P(even|awake)=1/3. A thirder should say there are four possible situations that awake SB could be in , and she cannot differentiate between them. Since 3 of them correspond to an even number of flips, P(odd|awake)=1/4 and P(even|awake)=3/4.
But like coscott’s, this variation, by itself, sheds no light on the original problem. We can even change numbers to something else:
1) Flip a coin.
a. If this (odd-numbered) flip lands heads, wake SB N times and end the experiment.
b. If this flip (odd-numbered) lands tails, continue to step 2.
2) Flip the coin again.
a. If this (even-numbered) flip lands heads, wake SB M times and end the experiment;
b. If this (even-numbered)flip lands tails, go to step #1.
You can decide for yourself whether you think the answer should depend on M and N, but I suspect most people will decide that based on whether they are halfers (“it can’t depend on M and N!”) or thirders (“it must depend on M and N!”), rather than what makes mathematical sense. (I’m not saying they will ignore mathematical, I’m saying they will define it by getting the answer they prefer.)
But as long as we are accepting the possibility of infinite wakings, what happens if we hold N constant and let M approach infinity? Halfers will still say the answers don’t change, thirders will say P(odd)=N/(M+N) and P(even)=M/(M+N).
But is it, or is it not, the same if we hold M constant, at a very large number, and let N approach 0? Because at N=0, P(odd)=0, which it can’t be if the halfers are right.
Coscott’s original problem is unsolvable by standard means because the expected number of wakings is infinite, so you can’t determine a frequency. That doesn’t mean it is unanswerable – we just need an isomorphism. After informing SB of the procedure and putting her to sleep the first time:
1) Set M=0. 2) Select a number N (I’ll discuss how later). 3) Flip a coin. a. If this (odd-numbered) flip lands heads, wake SB N times and end the experiment. b. If this flip (odd-numbered) lands tails, continue to step 4. 4) Flip the coin again. a. If this (even-numbered) flip lands heads, wake SB 3*N times and end the experiment; b. If this (even-numbered)flip lands tails, set M=M+1 go to step #2.
In Coscott’s version, we start with N=1 and multiply it by 9 each time we choose a new one; that is, N=9^M. But does the answer depend on N in any way? Halfers don’t think the answer depends on the number of wakings at all, and thirders think it depends only on the ratio of wakings in step 3a to those in step 4a, not the specific values.
So I maintain that my problem is the same as coscott’s, except in scale, no matter how we choose N. We can answer the original question by choosing N=1 every time.
There is a 2⁄3 chance of ending after an odd number of flips, and a 1⁄3 chance of ending after an even number. A halfer should claim SB gains no new knowledge by being awake, so P(odd|awake)=2/3 and P(even|awake)=1/3. A thirder should say there are four possible situations that awake SB could be in , and she cannot differentiate between them. Since 3 of them correspond to an even number of flips, P(odd|awake)=1/4 and P(even|awake)=3/4.
But like coscott’s, this variation, by itself, sheds no light on the original problem. We can even change numbers to something else:
1) Flip a coin. a. If this (odd-numbered) flip lands heads, wake SB N times and end the experiment. b. If this flip (odd-numbered) lands tails, continue to step 2. 2) Flip the coin again. a. If this (even-numbered) flip lands heads, wake SB M times and end the experiment; b. If this (even-numbered)flip lands tails, go to step #1.
You can decide for yourself whether you think the answer should depend on M and N, but I suspect most people will decide that based on whether they are halfers (“it can’t depend on M and N!”) or thirders (“it must depend on M and N!”), rather than what makes mathematical sense. (I’m not saying they will ignore mathematical, I’m saying they will define it by getting the answer they prefer.)
But as long as we are accepting the possibility of infinite wakings, what happens if we hold N constant and let M approach infinity? Halfers will still say the answers don’t change, thirders will say P(odd)=N/(M+N) and P(even)=M/(M+N).
But is it, or is it not, the same if we hold M constant, at a very large number, and let N approach 0? Because at N=0, P(odd)=0, which it can’t be if the halfers are right.