Okay, here’s my version of the story. It is a rather depressing tale of a naive girl who really needs to consume much, much less Axis Powers Hetalia-related works.
At the outset, I made the rather simplistic decision that out of the three available alliances in the West, the Anglo-German one was clearly superior and the most long-term stable. So I told England this… and really could have almost heard the selfish champagne-popping that Richard Sharp describes when, for instance, your Austria proposes a Key Lepanto for you. I have this distinct aversion to unnecessary lying in Diplomacy (in fact, I don’t think I really misled significantly anyone in the entire game, that was probably one of my great mistakes) so I was rather open about this with France. Demanded Belgium for England, which was very nice of me and which probably made it much worse for me when things went sour later.
From there England proposed a rather bizaare strategy of making France think that we were fighting each other and make us think we were fighting France and basically it was apparently a very complex justification for claiming to be in an alliance with me and France at the same time. I’m very curious as to which he viewed as his true ally. (Obviously, Alex has stated he thought it was him; I was under the impression it was me at the time, but am leaning towards him given how things turned out.)
Eventually things started to tilt rather inevitably towards England’s decline, considering how he was really playing in a rather incompetent, casual matter, having quite significant professional commitment outside of the game. It was around this time that my constant exchange of information with Russia solidified into something of an actual alliance? I liked having him around, anyway, and had a general preference for a plan where he stuck around.
Unfortunately, it was also around this time that some situation I didn’t really understand significantly at the time came about in the east which meant Turkey would send frequent whining emails to the Western powers about how we had to ~unite~ to ~stop Russia~. And then I was approached by Italy, who had this strange obsession with ~justice~ and was also kind of a sweet guy. I defended Russia mostly for having been the only person to really help me with a straight face at all in the whole game. The retreat to Munich was coordinated, however, and I reluctantly began to become an actor in Russia’s defeat.
...and also around this time I seemed to have run out of chances. I had like two centers and, eventually, France and Russia saw what they needed in each other, however short-term they might need it, and came together against me. Kind of sad, really.
It was around this time that my constant exchange of information with Russia solidified into something of an actual alliance? I liked having him around, anyway, and had a general preference for a plan where he stuck around.
I also had positive experiences with Russian communication, despite him stabbing me at one point. He simply wrote to me the most, and had the most to offer me. Unfortunately, in your case, you got played, and Russia was merely using you for what he could before he simply ate you. As a central power, allowing Russia to encroach was far too dangerous; everyone loves to chomp on a central power in the middle of the game.
You have to watch out for bigger nations when you are in their expansion path. You have to asked yourself where they are going next. By working with him, you were basically gambling that he would attack me next, but that was a bad gamble to make, because Russia attacking me post-1904 could have easily landed him in a big mess. I made clear to him that if he attacked me again, I would turn around and team up with Italy on him.
Unfortunately, it was also around this time that some situation I didn’t really understand significantly at the time came about in the east which meant Turkey would send frequent whining emails to the Western powers about how we had to ~unite~ to ~stop Russia~.
See my EoG to explain the situation in the East. Basically, Russia stabbed me with Italy in Spring 1903, then turned around and stabbed Italy in the Fall.
Initially, I was making a lot of noise about Russia out of a self-serving motive in the Spring, but even after Russia started working with me, I continued to make noise.
My stance towards towards the West was that you guys need to put pressure on Russia, or I continue working with him and sweeping the board with the Russia-Turkey “Juggernaught.” (Initially, I wanted to stab Russia, but the more noise I made, the less the West moved against Russia, perhaps because they erroneously thought I would stab Russia myself. I didn’t, because I didn’t want to tickle Russia and distract him while one of you two in the West ate the other. So I decided to work with Russia instead once I realized that the West would fail to stop us.) The Juggernaught is exactly what happened, except that France managed to survive due to the garage sale of England caused by his NMR and resignation.
Now do you see why I was making a big deal about Russia? It wasn’t just self-serving. Him arraying a force against you that you couldn’t stop was why you got eliminated in the end. France knew that he couldn’t save you, so he had to grab what he could. Fall 1905 would have been the right time to take more aggressive anti-Russian moves (e.g. bouncing him out of Sweden), and your position would have been a lot stronger.
The West did need to do something to stop Russia. The West cannot just sit around engaging in infighting while a Juggernaught is sweeping the board (and sitting around while Russia and Italy ate me would have been bad, also). England screwed over both you and himself by attacking you, and letting Russia into Norway in 1904.
I defended Russia mostly for having been the only person to really help me with a straight face at all in the whole game.
Russia managed to capitalize on your difficult relations with the West. I actually did take various pro-German steps throughout the game which may not have been obvious:
Around 1904, I suggested that the West pick an alliance structure that would have anti-Russian potential. Since such an alliance would need Germany, I was subtly saying “one of you get together with Germany and smash the other, then I’ll be willing to work with you against Russia.” Obviously I was too subtle. I really think England should have worked with you, and if he had gotten the support into Burgundy right in 1903, perhaps things would have been different.
In Spring 1906, I did leak the strategy I’d given you and France to Russia, though Russia should have poked Denmark either way. But in the Fall, I genuinely wanted to see your convoy succeed. I advised France to support you in the North Sea, yet he went for a build for himself from London instead. Your convoy failed, and Russia walked into Denmark, which basically doomed you and set the stage for a three-way between France, Russia, and I.
I tried to get them to keep you alive, because I wanted you sowing discord in the North. But it was too late.
I can’t speak for your motivations, but I do know that the main communication we had was you saying “Russia is a rising force and you must unite to defeat him and this is the right thing to do”, and I was highly put off about how you seemed to be saying this solely to get us to fight him for you, instead of actually taking action against him yourself. Yes, this had the justification of how you can’t just go fighting him right away with no support, but it did leave a very bad taste in my mouth.
What I can say is that by 1904, my main communications were “stab Russia kthx” from France, rare “stab Russia kthx” from you, eloquent “stab Russia kthx” from Italy, and “hi there bb how’s it going here’s some useful information and discussion” from Russia. Regardless of how he was playing me, it at least felt nicer than when England was playing me (seriously, he needs to get back home and explain himself because what was he even doing) and was actually benefitting him, unlike England’s actions.
You WERE trying to defend me at various points, I’ll give you that. The thing was that you tried to do this without actually getting properly involved in Western affairs or taking any actions that would directly lead to a specific alliance structure. Granted, given your position this is very hard.
I suppose this is a good place to mention that I totally offered Austria an Anschluss, which he very, very rudely (not to mention foolishly) refused.
You were placed in a hard situation by France’s builds, not just by your commitment to attack France. I thought it was similar to how Turkey and Italy’s fleet builds in the East made fighting me difficult. There was no way you and France could ally against Britain, so he could pick and choose who to ally with.
I was worried early game that you and Britain would kick me out of the North while I was preoccupied in the South, and then gobble up France, but that never materialized as Britain played around in Denmark and Holland.
I have to agree with Hugh’s analysis that war was inevitable, given my strength in Scandinavia, but I had hopes that I could delay attacking you as long as possible. Part of this was so that I could grab Edinburgh, but it was also because I try not to eliminate players as a general principle. It makes it harder to form grand alliances if there are more factions remaining on the board.
Once it became obvious that I couldn’t solo, though, and the Grand Alliance formed, it became a race with France for your centers.
I have to say that I enjoyed talking to you the most, along with Italy (before I stabbed him). I was slightly relieved when you stabbed me because it meant that I wouldn’t have to go through the drama of me stabbing another ally.
From there England proposed a rather bizaare strategy of making France think that we were fighting each other and make us think we were fighting France and basically it was apparently a very complex justification for claiming to be in an alliance with me and France at the same time. I’m very curious as to which he viewed as his true ally. (Obviously, Alex has stated he thought it was him; I was under the impression it was me at the time, but am leaning towards him given how things turned out.)
Are you referring to when Britain convoyed into Holland and you moved into Belgium? I remember that when I saw that move, first I was just confused, and then I eventually concluded that you wanted 3 fleets adjacent to the English Channel so that you could force your way in even if I build a fleet. If the constant switcharoos in the low countries were supposed to look like actual combat, it wasn’t very convincing.
And actually, I think that Britain was allied with you for the most part until he got discouraged by my successful defense in 1903, and switched sides in spring ’04. Speaking of said successful defense, why did English Army Ruhr support the wrong unit into Burgundy in spring 1903?
That was coordinated to give me a more advantageous position from which to attack you, which would have been helpful if England had actually been willing to do any damn attacking. I have no idea why he supported the incorrect unit; I don’t remember if I told him incorrectly at one point or if his finger slipped, and don’t really feel like going back and checking. (...oh my god his comments about the finger slipping make so much more sense now.)
That would be somewhat congruent with his attitudes (generally losing enthusiasm over the alliance between him and me over the course of the game). I’d really like to get him to come out and settle this, though.
Okay, here’s my version of the story. It is a rather depressing tale of a naive girl who really needs to consume much, much less Axis Powers Hetalia-related works.
At the outset, I made the rather simplistic decision that out of the three available alliances in the West, the Anglo-German one was clearly superior and the most long-term stable. So I told England this… and really could have almost heard the selfish champagne-popping that Richard Sharp describes when, for instance, your Austria proposes a Key Lepanto for you. I have this distinct aversion to unnecessary lying in Diplomacy (in fact, I don’t think I really misled significantly anyone in the entire game, that was probably one of my great mistakes) so I was rather open about this with France. Demanded Belgium for England, which was very nice of me and which probably made it much worse for me when things went sour later.
From there England proposed a rather bizaare strategy of making France think that we were fighting each other and make us think we were fighting France and basically it was apparently a very complex justification for claiming to be in an alliance with me and France at the same time. I’m very curious as to which he viewed as his true ally. (Obviously, Alex has stated he thought it was him; I was under the impression it was me at the time, but am leaning towards him given how things turned out.)
Eventually things started to tilt rather inevitably towards England’s decline, considering how he was really playing in a rather incompetent, casual matter, having quite significant professional commitment outside of the game. It was around this time that my constant exchange of information with Russia solidified into something of an actual alliance? I liked having him around, anyway, and had a general preference for a plan where he stuck around.
Unfortunately, it was also around this time that some situation I didn’t really understand significantly at the time came about in the east which meant Turkey would send frequent whining emails to the Western powers about how we had to ~unite~ to ~stop Russia~. And then I was approached by Italy, who had this strange obsession with ~justice~ and was also kind of a sweet guy. I defended Russia mostly for having been the only person to really help me with a straight face at all in the whole game. The retreat to Munich was coordinated, however, and I reluctantly began to become an actor in Russia’s defeat.
...and also around this time I seemed to have run out of chances. I had like two centers and, eventually, France and Russia saw what they needed in each other, however short-term they might need it, and came together against me. Kind of sad, really.
I also had positive experiences with Russian communication, despite him stabbing me at one point. He simply wrote to me the most, and had the most to offer me. Unfortunately, in your case, you got played, and Russia was merely using you for what he could before he simply ate you. As a central power, allowing Russia to encroach was far too dangerous; everyone loves to chomp on a central power in the middle of the game.
You have to watch out for bigger nations when you are in their expansion path. You have to asked yourself where they are going next. By working with him, you were basically gambling that he would attack me next, but that was a bad gamble to make, because Russia attacking me post-1904 could have easily landed him in a big mess. I made clear to him that if he attacked me again, I would turn around and team up with Italy on him.
See my EoG to explain the situation in the East. Basically, Russia stabbed me with Italy in Spring 1903, then turned around and stabbed Italy in the Fall.
Initially, I was making a lot of noise about Russia out of a self-serving motive in the Spring, but even after Russia started working with me, I continued to make noise.
My stance towards towards the West was that you guys need to put pressure on Russia, or I continue working with him and sweeping the board with the Russia-Turkey “Juggernaught.” (Initially, I wanted to stab Russia, but the more noise I made, the less the West moved against Russia, perhaps because they erroneously thought I would stab Russia myself. I didn’t, because I didn’t want to tickle Russia and distract him while one of you two in the West ate the other. So I decided to work with Russia instead once I realized that the West would fail to stop us.) The Juggernaught is exactly what happened, except that France managed to survive due to the garage sale of England caused by his NMR and resignation.
Now do you see why I was making a big deal about Russia? It wasn’t just self-serving. Him arraying a force against you that you couldn’t stop was why you got eliminated in the end. France knew that he couldn’t save you, so he had to grab what he could. Fall 1905 would have been the right time to take more aggressive anti-Russian moves (e.g. bouncing him out of Sweden), and your position would have been a lot stronger.
The West did need to do something to stop Russia. The West cannot just sit around engaging in infighting while a Juggernaught is sweeping the board (and sitting around while Russia and Italy ate me would have been bad, also). England screwed over both you and himself by attacking you, and letting Russia into Norway in 1904.
Russia managed to capitalize on your difficult relations with the West. I actually did take various pro-German steps throughout the game which may not have been obvious:
Around 1904, I suggested that the West pick an alliance structure that would have anti-Russian potential. Since such an alliance would need Germany, I was subtly saying “one of you get together with Germany and smash the other, then I’ll be willing to work with you against Russia.” Obviously I was too subtle. I really think England should have worked with you, and if he had gotten the support into Burgundy right in 1903, perhaps things would have been different.
In Spring 1906, I did leak the strategy I’d given you and France to Russia, though Russia should have poked Denmark either way. But in the Fall, I genuinely wanted to see your convoy succeed. I advised France to support you in the North Sea, yet he went for a build for himself from London instead. Your convoy failed, and Russia walked into Denmark, which basically doomed you and set the stage for a three-way between France, Russia, and I.
I tried to get them to keep you alive, because I wanted you sowing discord in the North. But it was too late.
I can’t speak for your motivations, but I do know that the main communication we had was you saying “Russia is a rising force and you must unite to defeat him and this is the right thing to do”, and I was highly put off about how you seemed to be saying this solely to get us to fight him for you, instead of actually taking action against him yourself. Yes, this had the justification of how you can’t just go fighting him right away with no support, but it did leave a very bad taste in my mouth.
What I can say is that by 1904, my main communications were “stab Russia kthx” from France, rare “stab Russia kthx” from you, eloquent “stab Russia kthx” from Italy, and “hi there bb how’s it going here’s some useful information and discussion” from Russia. Regardless of how he was playing me, it at least felt nicer than when England was playing me (seriously, he needs to get back home and explain himself because what was he even doing) and was actually benefitting him, unlike England’s actions.
You WERE trying to defend me at various points, I’ll give you that. The thing was that you tried to do this without actually getting properly involved in Western affairs or taking any actions that would directly lead to a specific alliance structure. Granted, given your position this is very hard.
I suppose this is a good place to mention that I totally offered Austria an Anschluss, which he very, very rudely (not to mention foolishly) refused.
You were placed in a hard situation by France’s builds, not just by your commitment to attack France. I thought it was similar to how Turkey and Italy’s fleet builds in the East made fighting me difficult. There was no way you and France could ally against Britain, so he could pick and choose who to ally with.
I was worried early game that you and Britain would kick me out of the North while I was preoccupied in the South, and then gobble up France, but that never materialized as Britain played around in Denmark and Holland.
I have to agree with Hugh’s analysis that war was inevitable, given my strength in Scandinavia, but I had hopes that I could delay attacking you as long as possible. Part of this was so that I could grab Edinburgh, but it was also because I try not to eliminate players as a general principle. It makes it harder to form grand alliances if there are more factions remaining on the board.
Once it became obvious that I couldn’t solo, though, and the Grand Alliance formed, it became a race with France for your centers.
I have to say that I enjoyed talking to you the most, along with Italy (before I stabbed him). I was slightly relieved when you stabbed me because it meant that I wouldn’t have to go through the drama of me stabbing another ally.
Are you referring to when Britain convoyed into Holland and you moved into Belgium? I remember that when I saw that move, first I was just confused, and then I eventually concluded that you wanted 3 fleets adjacent to the English Channel so that you could force your way in even if I build a fleet. If the constant switcharoos in the low countries were supposed to look like actual combat, it wasn’t very convincing.
And actually, I think that Britain was allied with you for the most part until he got discouraged by my successful defense in 1903, and switched sides in spring ’04. Speaking of said successful defense, why did English Army Ruhr support the wrong unit into Burgundy in spring 1903?
That was coordinated to give me a more advantageous position from which to attack you, which would have been helpful if England had actually been willing to do any damn attacking. I have no idea why he supported the incorrect unit; I don’t remember if I told him incorrectly at one point or if his finger slipped, and don’t really feel like going back and checking. (...oh my god his comments about the finger slipping make so much more sense now.)
That would be somewhat congruent with his attitudes (generally losing enthusiasm over the alliance between him and me over the course of the game). I’d really like to get him to come out and settle this, though.