Forgive me if this point has been hashed out elsewhere before, but I find the interchangeable use of “theism” and “religion” to be jarring every time I see it, and unhelpful in terms of what the community seems to want to accomplish.
Although Protestant religiosity does usually seem to boil down to a question of faith, it seems to be not-at-all uncommon among Jews and Catholics (possibly Muslims and non-Western religions as well; I have less experience with that) for religious practice to be cultural, and not based on any great conviction about God, particularly an anthropomorphic interventionist God. Perhaps there is a rationalist argument to be made that those cultural practices have negative utility, but it is an entirely separate argument from “believing in God is irrational.”
I observe a lot of Jewish religious traditions in spite of being a deist-leaning agnostic. Those practices that I choose to keep, I keep because I see something meaningful and useful in them. Others that I see as harmful or ridiculous I don’t observe. I am pretty clearly religious, though not exactly a Barbara, but arguments that undermine theism wouldn’t cause me to alter my current practices because “God told me so” isn’t the reason underlying them. This distinction seems to be elided pretty frequently on Lesswrong.
I wrote all this with “belief in God” as my working definition of religion. Religious observance is completely different, and I’m sure a lot of us retain religious observances. (Though I’d be surprised if non-theists prayed—that seems hard to do.)
Personally, I think giving people a hard time about religious observances, while it’s inevitable, can’t be justified as “helping” or “promoting rationality.” I see it more as light bullying.
Forgive me if this point has been hashed out elsewhere before, but I find the interchangeable use of “theism” and “religion” to be jarring every time I see it, and unhelpful in terms of what the community seems to want to accomplish.
Although Protestant religiosity does usually seem to boil down to a question of faith, it seems to be not-at-all uncommon among Jews and Catholics (possibly Muslims and non-Western religions as well; I have less experience with that) for religious practice to be cultural, and not based on any great conviction about God, particularly an anthropomorphic interventionist God. Perhaps there is a rationalist argument to be made that those cultural practices have negative utility, but it is an entirely separate argument from “believing in God is irrational.”
I observe a lot of Jewish religious traditions in spite of being a deist-leaning agnostic. Those practices that I choose to keep, I keep because I see something meaningful and useful in them. Others that I see as harmful or ridiculous I don’t observe. I am pretty clearly religious, though not exactly a Barbara, but arguments that undermine theism wouldn’t cause me to alter my current practices because “God told me so” isn’t the reason underlying them. This distinction seems to be elided pretty frequently on Lesswrong.
I was reading “theist” as a word to be the opposite of “atheist”. “Theist” isn’t a word I encounter much at all.
Good point.
I wrote all this with “belief in God” as my working definition of religion. Religious observance is completely different, and I’m sure a lot of us retain religious observances. (Though I’d be surprised if non-theists prayed—that seems hard to do.)
Personally, I think giving people a hard time about religious observances, while it’s inevitable, can’t be justified as “helping” or “promoting rationality.” I see it more as light bullying.