Depending on how close and dear someone’s belief are to their own identity, a context of warmth and growth could work against going against a wrong belief full-bore. Especially when you notice how essential such a belief is to someone’s identity. Like telling a child there’s no Santa, to their face.
rather than just looking for weak points in mine
Probably the crux of our disagreement: Looking for weak points in your own and the interlocutor’s belief is what you should be doing, with as few distractions as possible. (If correct beliefs were the overriding goal. Which, all protestations to the contrary aside, they mostly aren’t.)
However, I totally get that there are often more important things than correcting someone else’s wrong beliefs. Such as building shared experiences, creating a sense of community et coetera. Singing Kumbaya ;-).
Probably the crux of our disagreement: Looking for weak points in your own and the interlocutor’s belief is what you should be doing
I think you may be missing the point. It sounds to me like being more willing to look for weak points in your own arguments is exactly the kind of goal Leah has in mind for the change in context.
Well, this may be a subcultural distinction. In my circles, saying “Jeez oh man are you wrong, let’s get coffee to discuss” is affectionate, but it doesn’t mean people pull their punches over coffee. So fondness doesn’t require soft-pedaling.
I find it easier to look for weak points when both people are enthused to take each other on a tour through their beliefs (ideological show and tell, basically). If the discussion feels really framed around “discover weak points” it’s often harder for people to reveal them, because it feels like once they’re spotted, you’ll be laughed out of the argument. Alternatively, you can create a context where it’s easier to say, “This is the part that I find a bit confusing myself, to be honest, though I still am relatively confident in my overall model. What would your model say about this sticky widget?”
You’re treating looking for week points in your and the interlocutors belief as basically the same thing. That’s almost the opposite of the truth, because there’s a trade-off between those two things. If you’re totally focused on the second thing, the first one is psychologically near impossible.
Depending on how close and dear someone’s belief are to their own identity, a context of warmth and growth could work against going against a wrong belief full-bore. Especially when you notice how essential such a belief is to someone’s identity. Like telling a child there’s no Santa, to their face.
Probably the crux of our disagreement: Looking for weak points in your own and the interlocutor’s belief is what you should be doing, with as few distractions as possible. (If correct beliefs were the overriding goal. Which, all protestations to the contrary aside, they mostly aren’t.)
However, I totally get that there are often more important things than correcting someone else’s wrong beliefs. Such as building shared experiences, creating a sense of community et coetera. Singing Kumbaya ;-).
I think you may be missing the point. It sounds to me like being more willing to look for weak points in your own arguments is exactly the kind of goal Leah has in mind for the change in context.
Well, this may be a subcultural distinction. In my circles, saying “Jeez oh man are you wrong, let’s get coffee to discuss” is affectionate, but it doesn’t mean people pull their punches over coffee. So fondness doesn’t require soft-pedaling.
I find it easier to look for weak points when both people are enthused to take each other on a tour through their beliefs (ideological show and tell, basically). If the discussion feels really framed around “discover weak points” it’s often harder for people to reveal them, because it feels like once they’re spotted, you’ll be laughed out of the argument. Alternatively, you can create a context where it’s easier to say, “This is the part that I find a bit confusing myself, to be honest, though I still am relatively confident in my overall model. What would your model say about this sticky widget?”
You’re treating looking for week points in your and the interlocutors belief as basically the same thing. That’s almost the opposite of the truth, because there’s a trade-off between those two things. If you’re totally focused on the second thing, the first one is psychologically near impossible.