Ok I’ll react. I for one have wound up following my desires as they are.
I mean, far too often I could see the two sides of a coin, like “chocolate tastes good | that’s going to ruin my health”, and realize that indeed, the first part was stronger than the second one. Since I incur a net willpower cost for the weaker side, whenever I try to fight off the stronger impulse, I slowly but surely learned the habit to instantaneously bow and submit to my impulse, rather than wasting resources on what would turn out to be a lost cause in the end, anyway.
At first I did it only on those occasions where it didn’t look like it was even relevant to push myself. Then I expanded the set of occasions where I’d submit, again and again. I could often see how it was either harmless to concede ground, or irrelevant to keep it. And now I’m pretty much ridden with akrasia and laziness.
The state where you follow your “rational” judgment is more fragile, and artificial than the one where you follow the natural impulse. It’s easier to fall out of it than back in. And if you don’t train it constantly, and if you grow into the habit of yielding, then you’ll get even better at repeating the same pattern next time.
I’ll give just one more general example, that is when you think something along the lines of “oh, I want X, but I shouldn’t; ok, I’ll just do a little bit of it, then I’ll stop”, where X can be a lot of things, like this apple pie, gaming time while you’re studying, getting a wee bit too close to that special person you can’t be close to, etc.
Well, if it’s already difficult to fight it off at first, it won’t get easier once you’ve had a bit of it. To the contrary. And if you’re sophisticate enough to generalize past experiences, pleasurable ones, then any such “mistake” will help you choose the impulse over the rational choice, next time.
On an absolute sense, I’d tend to believe that something fragile needs to be protected. Also, not a few of the actions I’ll take against my best judgment, I know to be nefarious in one way or another.
Yes, I damn want those things I think I shouldn’t want. In some cases, to the point where I’ll actually defend them against myself or other’s interference, even though I know that if I have to be consistent with my own values, I shouldn’t, rather should I fight them. That , in general, sounds almost like a plea for help from the part of a mind that knows it’s right, but too fragile to survive once it’s made a few mistakes and has to compete with something much more vivid. If we end up saying that whatever side wins oneself over, is right, as long as you like it, then it’s only selecting for the strongest of both opponents. Does might make right ?
The funny thing about regret is that it’s better to regret something you have done than something that you haven’t done. I feel very fortunate in that I regret vanishingly little of what I have done—but I regret so much of what I haven’t done.
I’ll regret a lot when I’ll be getting older, as I’ll probably get crippled physically, mentally and economically from my lifestyle. I am also forfeiting my chances at something better, post singularity (or post longevity escape velocity, or whatever), if I can’t make it to there. That’s a lot of stuff I couldn’t do, to be regretted. Fact is, however, what I know intellectually, doesn’t move me anymore, or very little. It doesn’t connect to my feelings. There’s no dread, no sense of responsibility, no hope, nothing, that can push me forward. But there’s still something to keep me down. Any effort still feels like an effort. Doing something without any will to do it, feels like an effort. A permanent one. And then there’s little time and attention to spare for “important stuff” when there’s a constant drone in the back of your mind, reminding you of all the little, meaningless things you could do to get some immediate pleasure. That trumps long term projects, for which I feel much less motivated than I feel for short term ones.
I kinda knew about hyperbolic discounting, for a long time. It was fairly evident, from observing others, as well as myself, that the natural tendency was to discount, even large incentives, applying to tomorrow in favor of those applying today. But I didn’t discount my future so much when I was younger. Point in fact, I rarely did. I was ready to forfeit pleasure and even give up on a normal life, to develop myself, learn, study, spare money, eat healthily, etc.
Maybe I overdid it, and am suffering some kind of burnout. Or maybe I had enabling conditions that disappeared later on, like my family, or maybe was it that I was a child and therefore that I didn’t quite reason like an adult, that my neurology was different. Or maybe did I receive a few hard blows when I was a young teen, and that was more than I could handle.
So, no, it doesn’t look too different in light of hyperbolic discounting. I’m stuck, and knowledge alone doesn’t seem to be enough to help. Helping myself looks in principle as easy as “just doing it”. In practice I can’t, and I don’t even see why. It’s almost as if I was resisting getting better, as if I was protecting that flaw that’s grown in me. For that, I must say the “stuck in the middle” article rang a bell too.
I kinda knew about hyperbolic discounting, for a long time.
You knew you were discounting the future, sure, but I don’t think that’s the same as knowing about hyperbolic discounting.
I am very much pro-pleasure; no-one should have to give up on that. I guess I’m lucky in that my favourite pleasures are relatively safe ones like sex and drugs, so I don’t have to discount the future to enjoy them.
I’m really sorry to hear you feel so bleak about yourself and the situation you find yourself in; it sounds like you’re not alone here.
Ok I’ll react. I for one have wound up following my desires as they are.
I mean, far too often I could see the two sides of a coin, like “chocolate tastes good | that’s going to ruin my health”, and realize that indeed, the first part was stronger than the second one. Since I incur a net willpower cost for the weaker side, whenever I try to fight off the stronger impulse, I slowly but surely learned the habit to instantaneously bow and submit to my impulse, rather than wasting resources on what would turn out to be a lost cause in the end, anyway.
At first I did it only on those occasions where it didn’t look like it was even relevant to push myself. Then I expanded the set of occasions where I’d submit, again and again. I could often see how it was either harmless to concede ground, or irrelevant to keep it. And now I’m pretty much ridden with akrasia and laziness.
The state where you follow your “rational” judgment is more fragile, and artificial than the one where you follow the natural impulse. It’s easier to fall out of it than back in. And if you don’t train it constantly, and if you grow into the habit of yielding, then you’ll get even better at repeating the same pattern next time.
I’ll give just one more general example, that is when you think something along the lines of “oh, I want X, but I shouldn’t; ok, I’ll just do a little bit of it, then I’ll stop”, where X can be a lot of things, like this apple pie, gaming time while you’re studying, getting a wee bit too close to that special person you can’t be close to, etc. Well, if it’s already difficult to fight it off at first, it won’t get easier once you’ve had a bit of it. To the contrary. And if you’re sophisticate enough to generalize past experiences, pleasurable ones, then any such “mistake” will help you choose the impulse over the rational choice, next time.
On an absolute sense, I’d tend to believe that something fragile needs to be protected. Also, not a few of the actions I’ll take against my best judgment, I know to be nefarious in one way or another.
Yes, I damn want those things I think I shouldn’t want. In some cases, to the point where I’ll actually defend them against myself or other’s interference, even though I know that if I have to be consistent with my own values, I shouldn’t, rather should I fight them. That , in general, sounds almost like a plea for help from the part of a mind that knows it’s right, but too fragile to survive once it’s made a few mistakes and has to compete with something much more vivid. If we end up saying that whatever side wins oneself over, is right, as long as you like it, then it’s only selecting for the strongest of both opponents. Does might make right ?
Does this look any different in the light of hyperbolic discounting?
The funny thing about regret is that it’s better to regret something you have done than something that you haven’t done. I feel very fortunate in that I regret vanishingly little of what I have done—but I regret so much of what I haven’t done.
I’ll regret a lot when I’ll be getting older, as I’ll probably get crippled physically, mentally and economically from my lifestyle. I am also forfeiting my chances at something better, post singularity (or post longevity escape velocity, or whatever), if I can’t make it to there. That’s a lot of stuff I couldn’t do, to be regretted. Fact is, however, what I know intellectually, doesn’t move me anymore, or very little. It doesn’t connect to my feelings. There’s no dread, no sense of responsibility, no hope, nothing, that can push me forward. But there’s still something to keep me down. Any effort still feels like an effort. Doing something without any will to do it, feels like an effort. A permanent one. And then there’s little time and attention to spare for “important stuff” when there’s a constant drone in the back of your mind, reminding you of all the little, meaningless things you could do to get some immediate pleasure. That trumps long term projects, for which I feel much less motivated than I feel for short term ones.
I kinda knew about hyperbolic discounting, for a long time. It was fairly evident, from observing others, as well as myself, that the natural tendency was to discount, even large incentives, applying to tomorrow in favor of those applying today. But I didn’t discount my future so much when I was younger. Point in fact, I rarely did. I was ready to forfeit pleasure and even give up on a normal life, to develop myself, learn, study, spare money, eat healthily, etc.
Maybe I overdid it, and am suffering some kind of burnout. Or maybe I had enabling conditions that disappeared later on, like my family, or maybe was it that I was a child and therefore that I didn’t quite reason like an adult, that my neurology was different. Or maybe did I receive a few hard blows when I was a young teen, and that was more than I could handle.
So, no, it doesn’t look too different in light of hyperbolic discounting. I’m stuck, and knowledge alone doesn’t seem to be enough to help. Helping myself looks in principle as easy as “just doing it”. In practice I can’t, and I don’t even see why. It’s almost as if I was resisting getting better, as if I was protecting that flaw that’s grown in me. For that, I must say the “stuck in the middle” article rang a bell too.
You knew you were discounting the future, sure, but I don’t think that’s the same as knowing about hyperbolic discounting.
I am very much pro-pleasure; no-one should have to give up on that. I guess I’m lucky in that my favourite pleasures are relatively safe ones like sex and drugs, so I don’t have to discount the future to enjoy them.
I’m really sorry to hear you feel so bleak about yourself and the situation you find yourself in; it sounds like you’re not alone here.