I don’t think I’m insane. But then, I would say that, wouldn’t I?
You’ve misread me to suit your preconceptions. I never said that there was no epistemic viciousness in professional team sports. What I said was that the particular problems that Russell describes aren’t problems in pro sports. It’s possible to learn from the pro sports model without adopting it in every particular.
Of course not all football coaches rationally choose strategies; not all football coaches are competent, period. But unlike the dojos Russell describes, in pro sports that behavior in is understood as biased and unreasonable, not praised as respect for tradition.
I agree that “pro sports” are a way of life for many people—this was phrased poorly in my original post. I should have said that membership in a team isn’t a way of life for professional athletes. Fans generally stick with one team or another, but when you move from Chicago to Los Angeles, it’s not a big deal if you stop following the Bulls and start following the Lakers. Anyway, the analogy breaks down here—what would a “rationality fan” who didn’t actually practice rationality look like?
You say the breadth of martial arts knowledge of your BJJ/MMA community is “unusual.” I assume you meant relative to the rest of the martial arts community rather than the general population, which would be trivially obvious. Either way we agree that “continual testing against others” is the common denominator that keeps a dojo or a professional sports team effective.
If I am insane, I desire to believe that I am insane; If I’m not insane, I desire to believe that I’m not insane; Let me not become attached to beliefs I may not want.
Note that the timestamp was about 3 AM on New Year’s for me; I’m glad I didn’t post anything sillier given the circumstances.
Also, the hypothetical lunatic doesn’t desire to believe ze’s insane, just that marble tomato cheese brain. Ze isn’t capable of making that further inference.
The reason the litany helps people in general is that we really do want, upon reflection, to believe true things rather than false ones. I’m not sure that holds for lunatics.
I’m also tapping out, unless this conversation takes a more comical turn again.
I love the fact that my brain is perfectly happy to treat “marble tomato cheese brain” as falling into the “subject-verb-preposition-object” pattern, but insists that it should be either “marbles” or “tomatoes”.
Yes, I mean relative to the rest of the martial arts community.
“What would a rationality fan who didn’t actually practice rationality look like?” Jim Cramer on the Daily Show? (I refer not to the verbal destruction, but Cramer’s stated appreciation of Stewart’s points without any subsequent change in his behavior.)
Well, the Cornhuskers had a big thing for the Option I offense for a very long time, and recruited talent specifically for it—despite the growing utility of more “modern” offenses. There was a huge hullabaloo about the switch to the West Coast under Callahan. A significant portion of Husker fans still grumble about it, and mostly do so with the “tradition” criticism.
I don’t think I’m insane. But then, I would say that, wouldn’t I?
You’ve misread me to suit your preconceptions. I never said that there was no epistemic viciousness in professional team sports. What I said was that the particular problems that Russell describes aren’t problems in pro sports. It’s possible to learn from the pro sports model without adopting it in every particular.
Of course not all football coaches rationally choose strategies; not all football coaches are competent, period. But unlike the dojos Russell describes, in pro sports that behavior in is understood as biased and unreasonable, not praised as respect for tradition.
I agree that “pro sports” are a way of life for many people—this was phrased poorly in my original post. I should have said that membership in a team isn’t a way of life for professional athletes. Fans generally stick with one team or another, but when you move from Chicago to Los Angeles, it’s not a big deal if you stop following the Bulls and start following the Lakers. Anyway, the analogy breaks down here—what would a “rationality fan” who didn’t actually practice rationality look like?
You say the breadth of martial arts knowledge of your BJJ/MMA community is “unusual.” I assume you meant relative to the rest of the martial arts community rather than the general population, which would be trivially obvious. Either way we agree that “continual testing against others” is the common denominator that keeps a dojo or a professional sports team effective.
Repeat after Tarski:
If I am insane,
I desire to believe that I am insane;
If I’m not insane,
I desire to believe that I’m not insane;
Let me not become attached to beliefs I may not want.
FTFY:
Nope, maybe funny but incorrect. Even if I’m insane, I don’t desire being insane.
Note that the timestamp was about 3 AM on New Year’s for me; I’m glad I didn’t post anything sillier given the circumstances.
Also, the hypothetical lunatic doesn’t desire to believe ze’s insane, just that marble tomato cheese brain. Ze isn’t capable of making that further inference.
Maybe actually not, but ze should, hence the litany.
The reason the litany helps people in general is that we really do want, upon reflection, to believe true things rather than false ones. I’m not sure that holds for lunatics.
I’m also tapping out, unless this conversation takes a more comical turn again.
He doesn’t desire being insane, but he does desire to believe that marble tomato cheese brain.
The tomato was a verb and cheese was a preposition, btw.
I love the fact that my brain is perfectly happy to treat “marble tomato cheese brain” as falling into the “subject-verb-preposition-object” pattern, but insists that it should be either “marbles” or “tomatoes”.
Yes, I mean relative to the rest of the martial arts community.
“What would a rationality fan who didn’t actually practice rationality look like?” Jim Cramer on the Daily Show? (I refer not to the verbal destruction, but Cramer’s stated appreciation of Stewart’s points without any subsequent change in his behavior.)
Well, the Cornhuskers had a big thing for the Option I offense for a very long time, and recruited talent specifically for it—despite the growing utility of more “modern” offenses. There was a huge hullabaloo about the switch to the West Coast under Callahan. A significant portion of Husker fans still grumble about it, and mostly do so with the “tradition” criticism.
I can’t wait until a college or pro team does the A-11 offense: http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=825031