Especially movies ? Could you elaborate on that ? I always got the feelings that books are much more powerful at moving minds than movies, at least, at moving minds for the long term. Movies tend be much more ephemeral to me, they may create strong feelings during the watching, but they get forgotten a few days afterwards. While books tend to mark me profoundly. It’s especially true for movie adaption of books (they seem always more shallow than the books), but also in general, I can’t name any movie which had a power on me comparable to Asimov’ robots or Foundation series, Tolkien’s LOTR and Silmarillion, Orwell’s 1984, Zola’s Germinal, Voltaire’s Candide or Eliezer’s HP:MoR, just to name a few from totally different genres/writing styles.
All I meant was that way, way more people watch movies than read books. A best-seller is not read by nearly as many people as see a week’s #1 box office winner.
My first reaction was similar, but I think Luke is probably right. When I think of cases of people generalizing from fictional evidence, it seems to me that people are most likely to draw on movies. We may imagine books vividly, but movies are seen, and our brains developed in a context where that which was seen could be assumed to be real.
Cf lukeprog’s answer to my comment, indeed, much more people see movies—so when you generalize from fictional evidence, you’ll refer to movies more easily than to books, because you’ve more chance of the other knowing the movie.
But you know that your audience did read a book, it’s not more uncommon to call to a book (LOTR, Foundation or 1984 for example) than to movies. For myself, I tend to refer to books more than to movies when I know that people did read them, but more to movies when I don’t know my audience well.
Have you corrected that by the number of books you read and films you watch? I watch approximately as many films as I read books, and I think the numbers of books and of films which “impacted” me are approximately the same.
Well, I don’t know exactly how much movies I’ve seen and how much books I’ve read, I don’t count them. I definitely spent more time reading than watching movies. But in term of number of books vs number of movies I would say they are about even. And yet, I can’t name any single movie which comes close to dozens of books in term on how they impacted me. And the movies that I feel impacted me the most are movie adaptation of books which did impact me (reading the book AND watching the movie impacts me more than just doing one, I agree with that).
Well, after thinking more there is one movie which really impacted me as much as books did, which is also adapted from a book, but I didn’t read the book : Schindler’s List. But it’s not a fiction. And I would have to read the book to tell if the book impacts me more or less than the movie.
Do you think fiction has a place in moving minds? Or should rationalists boycott fiction?
Yes, fiction moves minds. Especially movies. Rationalists definitely should not boycott fiction.
Especially movies ? Could you elaborate on that ? I always got the feelings that books are much more powerful at moving minds than movies, at least, at moving minds for the long term. Movies tend be much more ephemeral to me, they may create strong feelings during the watching, but they get forgotten a few days afterwards. While books tend to mark me profoundly. It’s especially true for movie adaption of books (they seem always more shallow than the books), but also in general, I can’t name any movie which had a power on me comparable to Asimov’ robots or Foundation series, Tolkien’s LOTR and Silmarillion, Orwell’s 1984, Zola’s Germinal, Voltaire’s Candide or Eliezer’s HP:MoR, just to name a few from totally different genres/writing styles.
All I meant was that way, way more people watch movies than read books. A best-seller is not read by nearly as many people as see a week’s #1 box office winner.
“Should rationalists invade the movie industry, and if so, how?” would be a whole ’nother post, or, more likely, a series of posts.
The wrath of Spock? ;-)
Indeed, I didn’t read it this way, but if you speak of the amount of minds moved, movies win easily. Thanks for clarifying.
My first reaction was similar, but I think Luke is probably right. When I think of cases of people generalizing from fictional evidence, it seems to me that people are most likely to draw on movies. We may imagine books vividly, but movies are seen, and our brains developed in a context where that which was seen could be assumed to be real.
Cf lukeprog’s answer to my comment, indeed, much more people see movies—so when you generalize from fictional evidence, you’ll refer to movies more easily than to books, because you’ve more chance of the other knowing the movie.
But you know that your audience did read a book, it’s not more uncommon to call to a book (LOTR, Foundation or 1984 for example) than to movies. For myself, I tend to refer to books more than to movies when I know that people did read them, but more to movies when I don’t know my audience well.
Have you corrected that by the number of books you read and films you watch? I watch approximately as many films as I read books, and I think the numbers of books and of films which “impacted” me are approximately the same.
Well, I don’t know exactly how much movies I’ve seen and how much books I’ve read, I don’t count them. I definitely spent more time reading than watching movies. But in term of number of books vs number of movies I would say they are about even. And yet, I can’t name any single movie which comes close to dozens of books in term on how they impacted me. And the movies that I feel impacted me the most are movie adaptation of books which did impact me (reading the book AND watching the movie impacts me more than just doing one, I agree with that).
Well, after thinking more there is one movie which really impacted me as much as books did, which is also adapted from a book, but I didn’t read the book : Schindler’s List. But it’s not a fiction. And I would have to read the book to tell if the book impacts me more or less than the movie.