This isn’t quite the current norm yet (witness the negative reaction PUA tends to get on non-PUA sites).
Sure, the actual norms in operation are more complicated than “Every woman follows The Rules.” I think it is a reasonable generalization, and it certainly is a more accurate description than what I called the traditional sexuality norms.
That said, I think pushback to PUA comes from a variety of different sources:
Unwillingness to admit we don’t follow what I’ve called the traditional sexuality norms (including those who think this will help return us to those norms)
Social activists advocating for additional changes to the sex norms
Advocates of the current sex norms (such as they are) being upset about attempts to hack them
I decline to get into a separate fight that LW has shown itself unable to do with sufficient rationality. You are conflating a discussion about what the specific sex norms should be with a distinct discussion about whether being reflexive about what the norms are is a good idea.
To use your example, is it entitled of me to expect a soda after putting 6 quarters into a vending machine.
It is not wrong of me to assert a moral right to receive the soda, because there is an explicit social understanding that essentially everyone has accepted. Further, analytical challenges to that understanding are met with reasoned arguments that follow from explicit premises. And those arguments acknowledge and accept the premises.
By contrast, there is not an explicit social understanding of sexuality. To the extent there is any consensus at all, the consensus is implicit, not explicit. Analytical challenges to the consensus are met with hostility. To the extent that reasoning is used against the challenges, it is often unwilling to accept the premises used to justify the conclusions.
In short, I don’t think the norm you discussed here is particularly traditional, in that both the chaperone-model and the modern-dating-model seem to incorporate it. If anything, it is more central to the modern-dating model, because the chaperone model could probably be made to function without it.
Are there several not’s missing for misplaced in that paragraph?
“Don’t be explicit about examining norms” is part of both traditional sexuality norms and “The Rules” sexuality norms. Beyond that, I’m not sure what you think I was trying to say, so I’m not sure how to clarify.
Sure, the actual norms in operation are more complicated than “Every woman follows The Rules.” I think it is a reasonable generalization, and it certainly is a more accurate description than what I called the traditional sexuality norms.
That said, I think pushback to PUA comes from a variety of different sources:
Unwillingness to admit we don’t follow what I’ve called the traditional sexuality norms (including those who think this will help return us to those norms)
Social activists advocating for additional changes to the sex norms
Advocates of the current sex norms (such as they are) being upset about attempts to hack them
Application of the general norm that we should be unwilling to explicitly examine our norms.
I decline to get into a separate fight that LW has shown itself unable to do with sufficient rationality. You are conflating a discussion about what the specific sex norms should be with a distinct discussion about whether being reflexive about what the norms are is a good idea.
It is not wrong of me to assert a moral right to receive the soda, because there is an explicit social understanding that essentially everyone has accepted. Further, analytical challenges to that understanding are met with reasoned arguments that follow from explicit premises. And those arguments acknowledge and accept the premises.
By contrast, there is not an explicit social understanding of sexuality. To the extent there is any consensus at all, the consensus is implicit, not explicit. Analytical challenges to the consensus are met with hostility. To the extent that reasoning is used against the challenges, it is often unwilling to accept the premises used to justify the conclusions.
“Don’t be explicit about examining norms” is part of both traditional sexuality norms and “The Rules” sexuality norms. Beyond that, I’m not sure what you think I was trying to say, so I’m not sure how to clarify.