While I agree with the overall point of this comment, the 99% statistic seems very wrong to me. I expect that for some individuals that’s true, but across the whole population I’d be surprised if it’s much higher than 40%. I’m basing my estimate on, among other things, having worked in a Roman Catholic nursing home (with actual nuns, though I didn’t interact with them often) for four years and not making any particular effort to hide the fact that I’m an atheist from my co-workers. (The residents, I took on a case-by-case basis, as seemed appropriate given the situation.) I experienced exactly one instance in those four years of someone objecting more strongly than ‘wait, what?’ to my lack of faith: The leader of a new bible study group took offense when I didn’t actively participate in their event (and got in my face about it in front of my residents, which you just *don’t do* - I was much more upset about her upsetting them than anything else), and my supervisor’s reaction to that was to apologize profusely to me (and not about the residents having been upset, either, heh) and forbid that group from coming back. The vast majority of instances where religion came up were either in social bonding contexts or as personal or interpersonal reassurances (‘s/he’s in heaven now’) that were rarely to never directed at me by people who were aware of my atheism, and easily ignorable in any case.
“99.999...%” was intended to refer to the portion of self-identified theists whose theistic beliefs would be demonstrably irrational if explored.
It sounds like you’re talking about the portion of self-identified theists who are offended by atheism—a number which I would expect to be substantially lower.
I used that “99%” thing twice—I apologize for getting muddled about which one you were referring to.
Since we’re talking about the “bashing” figure: I maintain that the overwhelming majority of the time when “God” is invoked in the political field, it is being used as a club to bash people into line and promote religious ideas.
I maintain that the overwhelming majority of the time when “God” is invoked in the political field, it is being used as a club to bash people into line and promote religious ideas.
I’d agree with that; I don’t see much other reason to bring religion up, in that context. I expect that politics, some kinds of child-rearing, and provoked debates constitute the bulk of instances where religion is used as a club, and that those situations aren’t the bulk of the instances where religion is used at all. (My estimate for how often religion is used as a club compared to other uses, outside those contexts, is considerably less than 10%. People live this stuff even when we’re not around for them to fight with, after all.)
Perhaps what we are working towards, then, is a recognition that an irrational belief which is Mostly Harmless in personal life can become a deadly threat when let loose in the wrong habitat (such as the political field) -- and that therefore people who wish to embrace this Mostly Harmless irrational belief are much like exotic pet owners in that they need to be aware that their cute furry wuggums can be a serious hazard if not properly contained and cared for.
To bring this back to the original issue—i.e. why it’s necessary for MrHen to explain what his belief means before anyone can claim it is rational or otherwise—and complete the metaphor:
Believing in God is rather like owning a pet. It may or may not be a particularly rational thing to do (you have to spend a lot of time and money nurturing it, and the benefit you get in return is pretty much entirely psychological), but some pets are much more dangerous than others… and the degree of danger may not have any relationship to how cute and harmless they seem when you first adopt them.
some pets are much more dangerous than others… and the degree of danger may not have any relationship to how cute and harmless they seem when you first adopt them.
And once you start owning a cute little pet, it opens the door to owning larger and more dangerous pets.
I maintain that the overwhelming majority of the time when “God” is invoked in the political field, it is being used as a club to bash people into line and promote religious ideas.
It is appropriate, then, that politics is referred to as the skillful use of blunt instruments.
Your observations may be somewhat different from mine. I don’t know where you reside but I know that in the US, for example, ‘God’ plays more part in politics than it does here in Australia.
While I agree with the overall point of this comment, the 99% statistic seems very wrong to me. I expect that for some individuals that’s true, but across the whole population I’d be surprised if it’s much higher than 40%. I’m basing my estimate on, among other things, having worked in a Roman Catholic nursing home (with actual nuns, though I didn’t interact with them often) for four years and not making any particular effort to hide the fact that I’m an atheist from my co-workers. (The residents, I took on a case-by-case basis, as seemed appropriate given the situation.) I experienced exactly one instance in those four years of someone objecting more strongly than ‘wait, what?’ to my lack of faith: The leader of a new bible study group took offense when I didn’t actively participate in their event (and got in my face about it in front of my residents, which you just *don’t do* - I was much more upset about her upsetting them than anything else), and my supervisor’s reaction to that was to apologize profusely to me (and not about the residents having been upset, either, heh) and forbid that group from coming back. The vast majority of instances where religion came up were either in social bonding contexts or as personal or interpersonal reassurances (‘s/he’s in heaven now’) that were rarely to never directed at me by people who were aware of my atheism, and easily ignorable in any case.
Strawmen aren’t good, ok?
“99.999...%” was intended to refer to the portion of self-identified theists whose theistic beliefs would be demonstrably irrational if explored.
It sounds like you’re talking about the portion of self-identified theists who are offended by atheism—a number which I would expect to be substantially lower.
I used that “99%” thing twice—I apologize for getting muddled about which one you were referring to.
Since we’re talking about the “bashing” figure: I maintain that the overwhelming majority of the time when “God” is invoked in the political field, it is being used as a club to bash people into line and promote religious ideas.
I’d agree with that; I don’t see much other reason to bring religion up, in that context. I expect that politics, some kinds of child-rearing, and provoked debates constitute the bulk of instances where religion is used as a club, and that those situations aren’t the bulk of the instances where religion is used at all. (My estimate for how often religion is used as a club compared to other uses, outside those contexts, is considerably less than 10%. People live this stuff even when we’re not around for them to fight with, after all.)
Perhaps what we are working towards, then, is a recognition that an irrational belief which is Mostly Harmless in personal life can become a deadly threat when let loose in the wrong habitat (such as the political field) -- and that therefore people who wish to embrace this Mostly Harmless irrational belief are much like exotic pet owners in that they need to be aware that their cute furry wuggums can be a serious hazard if not properly contained and cared for.
To bring this back to the original issue—i.e. why it’s necessary for MrHen to explain what his belief means before anyone can claim it is rational or otherwise—and complete the metaphor:
Believing in God is rather like owning a pet. It may or may not be a particularly rational thing to do (you have to spend a lot of time and money nurturing it, and the benefit you get in return is pretty much entirely psychological), but some pets are much more dangerous than others… and the degree of danger may not have any relationship to how cute and harmless they seem when you first adopt them.
And once you start owning a cute little pet, it opens the door to owning larger and more dangerous pets.
That sounds about right.
It is appropriate, then, that politics is referred to as the skillful use of blunt instruments.
Your observations may be somewhat different from mine. I don’t know where you reside but I know that in the US, for example, ‘God’ plays more part in politics than it does here in Australia.